Toxic Masculinity

[Darog]

I can just link you a couple of posts in this thread :p. that helps my case.

Anyway, I was just stating an opinion from what I've observed.

 

[Silent]

I can just link you a couple of posts in this thread :p. that helps my case.

@Bravo pretty much laid it out all on the line. Even here in the States, he's nailed it.

I'm not saying there isn't an aspect of it that at least exist, but honestly, the SJW and Feminist are suggesting that to end rape/violence against women-- men need to change as a whole. Starting with their Masculinity. Masculinity does not define the man. Masculinity also doesn't say he will rape and be violent.

Most every example I've seen here goes back to the core principle-- How are we raising our boys? Are we teaching them that it's ok to be emotional? Are we teaching them the difference between being masculine and being what amounts to a bully? Are we teaching them that it's ok to feel masculine without fitting the typical mold?

Men don't learn how to be 'toxic' over night, it started at home as a child.

EDIT: There are also other external items that effect this issue-- Male Hormones. I haven't seen any touch on this. If you did, I apologize.

 

[Brovo]

Basically, it's the equivalent to saying that foods with fat can kill if you overindulge. Therefore, we must ban all food with fat.

Thing is, you can overindulge in anything. That doesn't suddenly mean that it's toxic.

 

[Sir Salty]

@Bravo pretty much laid it out all on the line. Even here in the States, he's nailed it.
. Masculinity also doesn't say he will rape and be violent.

And on this topic specifically, rape is a product of control and power. That uses sexual organs to humiliate a victim. But it is not a crime based on sex. Nor a crime based on masculinity. Because woman can rape as well. We just don't talk about it.

I mean it's one of the reason why rape was happening in the army. Especially with officers in a higher rank than someone else, because it's about power, control, and humiliation. Not sex, not a man trying to get his way.

Except that we deflate sex and rape as if they are the same categories.

 

[Silent]

And on this topic specifically, rape is a product of control and power. That uses sexual organs to humiliate a victim. But it is not a crime based on sex. Nor a crime based on masculinity. Because woman can rape as well. We just don't talk about it.

I mean it's one of the reason why rape was happening in the army. Especially with officers in a higher rank than someone else, because it's about power, control, and humiliation. Not sex, not a man trying to get his way.

Except that we deflate sex and rape as if they are the same categories.

Though I agree with this to certain extent, there are some rape cases that are about sex-- the lack there of. Desperation for it, the social anxiety that's placed on men that if they aren't getting sex regularly, it emasculates them.
It can also be about control and the feeling of begin justified in the action.

How it plays out:
1- A male has constantly had his sexual advances rejected. Maybe by a single female or by many. (He's Desperate to prove he's a man through SEX)
2- A male sees other males getting perceived sexual activities or 'getting with chicks'-- feels emasculated. (Male feels Humiliated)
3- Male gets desperate to stop that feeling, gets angry-- points his anger toward females. (Male feels Powerless and out of Control.)
4- Most likely the male doesn't even know that's what he's going to do-- he acts on impulse. (Feels Powerful and Feels like he's in Control)
5- Male uses the control to get (in his mind) Sex from a female-- He feels justified because now he no longer feels emasculated. (Feels like he's Humiliated the Female as he's been humiliated)

This is only ONE of many scenarios in which Rape is used. I'm not saying the other situation do not happen, only that rape isn't so generalized as a 100% Power, Humiliation, and Control. Yes, these three areas are always existent factors in rape, but to say Sex itself isn't, it's not looking at rape as a whole. You're only touching on one type of possible rape scenario.

I'll also note, that in my scenario, this male is the most likely to murder his rape victim.

 

[Sir Salty]

Though I agree with this to certain extent, there are some rape cases that are about sex-- the lack there of. Desperation for it, the social anxiety that's placed on men that if they aren't getting sex regularly, it emasculates them.
It can also be about control and the feeling of begin justified in the action.

How it plays out:
1- A male has constantly had his sexual advances rejected. Maybe by a single female or by many. (He's Desperate to prove he's a man through SEX)
2- A male sees other males getting perceived sexual activities or 'getting with chicks'-- feels emasculated. (Male feels Humiliated)
3- Male gets desperate to stop that feeling, gets angry-- points his anger toward females. (Male feels Powerless and out of Control.)
4- Most likely the male doesn't even know that's what he's going to do-- he acts on impulse. (Feels Powerful and Feels like he's in Control)
5- Male uses the control to get (in his mind) Sex from a female-- He feels justified because now he no longer feels emasculated. (Feels like he's Humiliated the Female as he's been humiliated)

This is only ONE of many scenarios in which Rape is used. I'm not saying the other situation do not happen, only that rape isn't so generalized as a 100% Power, Humiliation, and Control. Yes, these three areas are always existent factors in rape, but to say Sex itself isn't, it's not looking at rape as a whole. You're only touching on one type of possible rape scenario.

I'll also note, that in my scenario, this male is the most likely to murder his rape victim.

All of those examples are of control.

Due to social anxiety and a rejection of woman he takes it out on woman, that's a form of power and control. Where someone lacks control in one aspect of their life, they take it out where they do have contorl.

 

[Silent]

Due to social anxiety and a rejection of woman he takes it out on woman, that's a form of power and control. Where someone lacks control in one aspect of their life, they take it out where they do have contorl.

But it started with his need to prove he's a man through sex. So sex has played it's part in the rape. And I never said it wasn't. I'm not debating that or arguing that there is no power or control. Only that rape can be about sex.

You stated sex is never a factor in rape. It clearly can be. In his mind he's getting 'sex'. How he obtained it, is irrelevant. :)

 

[Sir Salty]

But it started with his need to prove he's a man through sex. So sex has played it's part in the rape. And I never said it wasn't. I'm not debating that or arguing that there is no power or control. Only that rape can be about sex.

You stated sex is never a factor in rape. It clearly can be. In his mind he's getting 'sex'. How he obtained it, is irrelevant. :)

No it's power and control. Not sex.

Even though he's doing it because he doesn't get sex. In one way or another the sex component is power and control.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this

 

[Silent]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this

Agreed. :)

 

[Sir Salty]

Agreed. :)

:)

lol

And to my original post in this thread. I was talking about how Toxic Masculinity ruins the image of what masculinity should be in the male community.