The Second Amendment

[Kakumei]

It just seems like opening a can of worms

But then again, with people like Jorick and Bravo around, I think I can count on the extremist stupidity of either viewpoint from infecting this place

Having an opinion and debating it isn't extremist. Having a viewpoint and acting on it is extremist. You know, like ISIS, Al Queda, Adam Lanza, etc.

 

[Durandal]

Having an opinion and debating it isn't extremist. Having a viewpoint and acting on it is extremist. You know, like ISIS, Al Queda, Adam Lanza, etc.

If your viewpoint is that all guns should be completely 100% banned, that is an extreme point of view, the inverse is also true

 

[Kakumei]

If your viewpoint is that all guns should be completely 100% banned, that is an extreme point of view, the inverse is also true

I don't even think that the inverse is even a thing.

Ah well, "extreme" is subjective.

 

[Asmodeus]

Yes folks. Getting rid of guns will be tricky and imperfect.

Just like getting people to stop burning witches and owning slaves was tricky and imperfect.

There will be much jeering and chortling. But then everyone will get on with their lives.

I'd like a helicopter so I can get to work. I feel it's my right to have a helicopter. But I might kill people in the parling lot. So I'll just have to accept that Life doesn't allow me to have a big noisy convenient thing that solves my problems.

I'll buy a car, plan a route, work out a compromise on how to share it with my wife, accept that I might get caught in traffic, and grow into a human being that isn't paralyzed the moment his infantile grabby hands don't find the shortcut switch.

 

[Durandal]

I don't even think that the inverse is even a thing.

Ah well, "extreme" is subjective.

the inverse where some Americans think that owning a gun should be mandatory? It's a belief that's real

Yes folks. Getting rid of guns will be tricky and imperfect.

Just like getting people to stop burning witches and owning slaves was tricky and imperfect.

Trying to compare gun control to burning witches and owning slaves is ridiculous

 

[Kakumei]

Yes folks. Getting rid of guns will be tricky and imperfect.

Just like getting people to stop burning witches and owning slaves was tricky and imperfect.

There will be much jeering and chortling. But then everyone will get on with their lives.

I'd like a helicopter so I can get to work. I feel it's my right to have a helicopter. But I might kill people in the parling lot. So I'll just have to accept that Life doesn't allow me to have a big noisy convenient thing that solves my problems.

I'll buy a car, plan a route, work out a compromise on how to share it with my wife, accept that I might get caught in traffic, and grow into a human being that isn't paralyzed the moment his infantile grabby hands don't find the shortcut switch.

False equivalence.

the inverse where some Americans think that owning a gun should be mandatory? It's a belief that's real

And so rare I hardly think it really warrants bringing up.

 

[Tegan]

Ratify or repeal one of the 27 Amendments to make it apply to present day standards? Ridiculous. It would never fly.
*Pulls a sheet over the 18th and 21st Amendments*


We need assault rifles, because what if we suddenly go back to being 13 little, impoverished colonies with no militia, and the Brits wanting to invade us at any second?

I'm afraid it's our own government now we'll have to fight. I think it's all those poor people on Food Stamps who want to go all zombie apocalypse and take my TV. Oh, if only there were some sort of electoral process (complete with a checks and balances system) that prevented these corrupt officials from coming into office, and better use of public funds to give all citizens basic, fundamental things like food, education, healthcare and access to clean drinking water, so no one would have a reason to take my TV.


*Side eyes the 12th through 27th Amendments* You guys get a pass, I guess, even through you do alter our original drafts for Presidential and Congressional terms, freed all those slaves, reformed citizenship laws, and gave all Those People the right to vote. You're CAN amendments, not CAN'T amendments.

 

[Asmodeus]

I'm comparing an unsustainable fear-induced retarded Medieval chauvanist paradigm that glorifies violence and Darwinism to the detriment of social progress with... burning witches and owning slaves.

My equivalence is flawless.

Shoot at me Bro.

 

[Kakumei]

I'm comparing an unsustainable fear-induced retarded Medieval chauvanist paradigm that glorifies violence and Darwinism to the detriment of social progress with... burning witches and owning slaves.

My equivalence is flawless.

Shoot at me Bro.

Sure, because "social progress" can't be done while their are 80 million+ responsible gun owners. In fact, that logic that you have presented looks as if you think that no progress can occur as long as guns exist. Never mind the fact that without guns in the UK, an Islamic extremist beheaded a member of your national military in broad daylight in front of a camera to basically show the world that banning guns didn't stop the murder from taking place. In fact, he showed that he didn't fear any repercussion at all.

We can also point out the Charlie Hebdo attack as a pretty good example of a country that doesn't even allow its normal security forces to carry a side-arm and that all it takes is scrubs to get their hands on guns anyway- despite that guns are banned in France- to still use guns to kill people.

The very thought that "social progress" can't occur just because 80 million Americans like to keep a gun on them cant happen, is "fear-inducing" itself.

Anyway, I have entertained the flawed argument long enough- its still false equivalence.

You are comparing witch burning and slave owning (actions) to guns (items). Witch burning and slave owning are effectively evil because they deprive people of their inalienable rights. Owning a gun is an amoral action- neither good nor evil, and can be used to do good or evil. In the case of 80 million Americans, they don't often get used in a good or evil scenario.

 

[Grothnor]

Banning guns in America is counter to the basis the nation was founded on. The Declaration of Independence pretty much says that if a Government isn't serving the people, it is the people's duty to overthrow it and replace it with a better one. The 2nd Amendment pretty much would allow such an event to happen. In effect, the 2nd Amendment is America's failsafe. Now I'm not saying guns should or shouldn't be regulated (it's a state right, leave it in their hands) or that anyone should overthrow the government (I think the government is not serving the people, but there's still tile to fix it). What I am saying is that repealing the 2nd Amendment would nullify eveything America was founded on. The day America repeals the 2nd Amendment is the day I take up arms against my own country.

 

[Kakumei]

Banning guns in America is counter to the basis the nation was founded on. The Declaration of Independence pretty much says that if a Government isn't serving the people, it is the people's duty to overthrow it and replace it with a better one. The 2nd Amendment pretty much would allow such an event to happen. In effect, the 2nd Amendment is America's failsafe. Now I'm not saying guns should or shouldn't be regulated (it's a state right, leave it in their hands) or that anyone should overthrow the government (I think the government is not serving the people, but there's still tile to fix it). What I am saying is that repealing the 2nd Amendment would nullify eveything America was founded on. The day America repeals the 2nd Amendment is the day I take up arms against my own country.

Praise the sun, sir.

 

[Asmodeus]

Oh dear.

Yes. It's a shame we didn't shoot those religious extremists. But that's fundamentalism - a whole different debate. They too will grow the fuck up, in time.

And yes - gun-owning Americans are an obstacle to social progress. Their mindsets are deranged. They're either old cantankerous fucks, hysterical parents, or youths who think they will laid if they convince everyone that we're in a State of Nature.

We will take away your legos. And you will be nice to grandma. >:[

 

[Brovo]

Banning guns in America is counter to the basis the nation was founded on. The Declaration of Independence pretty much says that if a Government isn't serving the people, it is the people's duty to overthrow it and replace it with a better one. The 2nd Amendment pretty much would allow such an event to happen. In effect, the 2nd Amendment is America's failsafe. Now I'm not saying guns should or shouldn't be regulated (it's a state right, leave it in their hands) or that anyone should overthrow the government (I think the government is not serving the people, but there's still tile to fix it). What I am saying is that repealing the 2nd Amendment would nullify eveything America was founded on. The day America repeals the 2nd Amendment is the day I take up arms against my own country.

Also, if numbers are anything to go by... Using this as a source,

33,636 gun-related fatalities. 270,000,000 firearms (assuming lowest figure). In other words, for every firearm used in a fatality (and assuming each and every single fatality each used a new firearm rather than being a repeat case), there are 8,027 firearms that are not used in any crimes or accidents involving fatalities.

In other words: The mere presence of firearms does not incite people to crime. They're simply the most available weapon with which to commit those crimes. Unless some firearms come with a feature that tells people to murder each other and I just haven't heard of such a feature. Is it voice activated?

 

[Asmodeus]

I'm sure that third group of individuals I mentioned is now furiously quoting me and typing long-winded responses. So before I leave, I'll say one last thing.

If any of us here met in person, we'd be friendly, amenable and agree with each other on many things. This is because social interaction has etiquette, unspoken rules and a positive cultural history.

Being online, anonymous and having forum debates is like having a gun (yay equivalencies!). You have the power to string words together and so feel entitled to do so. And your actions, even your very persona, is driven by fear of trolls and misunderstanding. And you are highly aware that you can get away with being a colossal cunt and causing irreparable damage to impressionable people. And sometimes you do those things, for the lulz.

People online are infantile dicks. Gun owners are infantile dicks.

Mother needs to hand out the spankings.

 

[Kakumei]

Oh dear.

Yes. It's a shame we didn't shoot those religious extremists. But that's fundamentalism - a whole different debate. They too will grow the fuck up, in time.

And yes - gun-owning Americans are an obstacle to social progress. Their mindsets are deranged. They're either old cantankerous fucks, hysterical parents, or youths who think they will laid if they convince everyone that we're in a State of Nature.

We will take away your legos. And you will be nice to grandma. >:[

Fundamentalism is a different debate. However, my examples of what a "mostly" gun free land has in store for it still hold, even if you don't challenge the point directly, and choose to deflect by calling it a different debate.

On the contrary, what you have done by calling "Gun-Owning Americans" an "obstacle to social progress" is exactly what you hard-left wing types often say we shouldn't do- make "unfair generalizations" about groups of people. Not to mention, your entire argument is based on a stereotype, one that holds absolutely no water.

Simply saying that "Their mindsets are deranged", also adds no substance to the debate. Its simply a tactic in which you make a wild claim in order to get the audience to look at what you said and form an emotional opinion without actually looking at facts or information in the debate.

Most of your arguments have been riddled with logical fallacies, mixed with an unearned 'air of superiority' and very little to do with logical debate or discussion. You can carry on that way if you'd like, but I'll just start to ignore your flailing if the silliness continues.

 

[Shadon Xarian]

You've always been prone to gross exaggeration and ouright lies, but this is the first time I've seen you avocate something that will outright get somebody killed if they listened to you @Pharaoh Shadon.

Also pray tell how a killer is going to slice the throats of the back row of a movie theater when the seats are flush against the wall with nobody noticing, and how anybody wouldn't notice the person next to them struggling if somebody grabbed or attacked them from behind.

Your amusing story of colour changing snowflake eyes while you shoot things with marksman accuracy with a handgun is charming, considering the front sight post becomes far too large to be used with any sort of precision from a distance, like any wide bladed iron sight. I also don't care who you are, but you are prone to "humblebragging" about how much better at things than everyone else all the damn time, especially how you do it just different enough from everyone else, that I would be amazed if anyone took you at your word anymore, especially anyone who's experienced and proficient about half the stuff you claim to be incredible at with clockwork regularity. This debate isn't about peacocking to a bunch of strangers on the internet, it's about the second amendment and it's application.

That's all I am going to say on the matter because it's getting off topic, but I am sick and tired of you outright lying to make yourself look good all the time, especially in serious conversations. If you want to continue this, take it to PMs, but do me a favour, do it as the real you and not this internet personna you've built up.

The only reason I brought this up in a public forum instead of messaging you is because this is definitely an instance where your tips for surviving someone will absolutely get them killed, and that is something I do not fuck around with.

Tell me, where are the lies? What I was doing is showing just how much more dangerous knives can be than guns. Guns have a limit, a knives limit is up to its wielder (More or less)

And exaggerators? Hardly, I'm leaving out ALLOT of not so appropriate details. I'm under-exaggerating if anything.

How nobody will notice? I just told you how they won't. The movie is loud, and mass shootings seem to happen in action movies. Even so, movies are loud. The person that will notice is the person next to them, who will have mere SECONDS (If even) to react to the person behind. Also, I said POTENTIALLY. I explained how it can backfire on the killer too. Read what I say, not what you think I mean.

About the eyes and shooting ability, believe what you want. I didn't know that my eyes turned grey at times until I saw them in a mirror fairly recentlyish, and a fun story my mother told me with this one girl coming up to me as a baby and being like "I've never seen someone with grey eyes before." Doing a bit of research, I found that people seem to believe that grey eyes have something to do with aiming. Considering my natural talent at it, I can believe it.

[BCOLOR=#0000ff]"about how much better at things than everyone else all the damn time, especially how you do it just different enough from everyone else"[/BCOLOR]
I never said I was better than you, or anybody else here. I said that most people who see my skill are always impressed and gives me nicknames and what nots. Why does that matter? Because from my experience online, people like someone with a bit of a resume or else they tend to just say you have no experience and don't know what you're talking about.

[BCOLOR=#0000ff] that I would be amazed if anyone took you at your word anymore, especially anyone who's experienced and proficient about half the stuff you claim to be incredible at with clockwork regularity.[/BCOLOR]
Then apparently you're not as proficient as you think you are if you don't understand what i'm talking about. Everyone has a natural skill at something, mine seems to be accuracy. In turn, You're super above average in some subjects too. (Hopefully, I like to think that everyone has at least 1 natural talent towards something)

[BCOLOR=#0000ff]but I am sick and tired of you outright lying to make yourself look good all the time[/BCOLOR]
You seem to think this is about me. You're the only person making this about me. This isn't about me, this is about the world we live in. I haven't said a single lie. Have I said things that are wrong? Perhaps. But I don't know they're wrong, so it's just bad information, information that will be quite handy to know is wrong for my own personal future. if I'm wrong, then SHOW me why i'm wrong, TEACH ME the error of my ways. If you just tell someone "Liar!" and leave it at that, they learn nothing, and that potential lie just keeps being spread.

[BCOLOR=#0000ff] tips for surviving someone will absolutely get them killed,[/BCOLOR]
As opposed to what? Being kidnapped, raped hard, murdered painfully, buried/burned and forgotten? You don't know what that guy after you has planned. Sure you can play their game and MAYBE survive, but at what cost? Severe traumatization? Painful death? Forever tormented till the kidnapper dies of old age? What do you suggest people do then? Neither option are things that ANYBODY wants, and if you choose to be kidnapped and be made a slave for whatever horrendous thing they want to do to you so you can stay a good person, then so be it.


And this is all entirely on topic. If you're talking about the second amendment, then everything that's been said relates. Take away guns? Then the exact situations I mentioned above gets even more scary.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Thanks everyone for demonstrating why Debate threads never end well.

Now if you could all stay on the topic that Kakumei set, I won't have to spank you. Last warning.

 

[nyther]

raped hard

As opposed to gently.

And yes, I read everything and that's what I picked out to respond to.

But on topic right quick. I think it should be basic guns are fine with assault rifles, RPG's, flame throwers, grenades, etc. kept in military hands.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

DID I FUCKING STUTTER?!

 

[Windsong]

I was going to make a comment on something. But the big dogs are out with their big posts and long-winded quoting piles.

Firearms are ingrained in US society. The people that respect guns understand them. People that fear them more often than not have no idea how a bullet even works. All speaking from personal experience.

@Grumpy But Rick does stutter a lot.