Teach Me: Guns & Firearms.

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Brovo, Jan 29, 2016.

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  1. I'm going to be writing a couple of new Role Play Guides soon. One of those is a general combat guide, and that will necessitate knowledge on firearms. On each and every guide, I do research. I read sources with verifiable credentials, ask some people who are passionate about the subject questions, and so on.

    I know Iwaku has a surprising number of gun nuts passionate enthusiasts, so teach me what you know. Be informative. Dispel myths and rumours that drive you nuts that you see in Hollywood or video games.

    I'll still be reading other, more verifiable sources for information on firearms, but teach me what y'all know, if you want to spare a few minutes for me.
    • How does one fire a gun without horribly injuring themselves like an idiot?
    • How effective are guns based on calibre? What the fuck is a calibre, exactly?
    • What are some of the primary differences between historical firearms, and firearms of the modern day?
    • How effective are defenses against firearms? (Ex: Kevlar vests, plate mail, riot blast shields.)
    • What are some of the basic tactics and strategies involved in firearm use?
    • If there are any particular myths you'd like to dispel about firearms, which ones in particular here grind your gears?

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  2. Once my boyfriend gets home from work I will let him post here. This will either make it so I won't have to hear him talk about guns for a day, or it will make it so he does not shut up about the subject. Either way I hope whatever he posts can help you.
    • By pointing the end where the bullet comes from away from you and towards what you want dead. Also by not locking your arms before firing, I believe.
    • Caliber is basically bullet size. .22 being downright puny, squirrel shooting, .50 for hunting engine blocks. There are far smaller and faaaar bigger calibers, those are just two popular ones you hear about.
    • Ease of reloading would be my personal take on it. One shot, a few minute(s) to reload the next one. Also the sheer damaging power. Older bullets used to just make holes. Modern bullets (hollow point in this case) is meant to break up inside the body with shards of metal tumbling around, causing serious exit wounds and internal damage.
    • Most 'bullet proof' materials are more like bullet resistant. They'll stop the bullet from penetrating. But you'll feel like a bus just hit you. Kevlar is made of tightly woven fibers. Ceramics are able to withstand one shot? Afterward the plate is shattered. Have to check on that though.
    • Take cover. Putting as many things and layers of things between you and the bad guys bullet. Preferably earth or thick metal.
    • Car doors will not stop a bullet. Using the engine block as a bullet stopper is a far better option since it's so fucking thick. Also assault weapons, hear that too much. Someone else will likely clarify before I can get back with more info. Bullets don't kill instantly like people imagine. Going into shock quickly, yes. Dying, not so suddenly unless it hits major arteries, organs, etc. gut shots are literally the worst way to die by gunshot.
    That's all I got. @Dervish will have far more knowledge on this subject.

    Would also suggest browsing Taoflerdermaus (probably wrong but you'll find them) on youtube. They make and fire custom bullets all the time. Might be insightful.

    Good luck.
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  3. @Hope because she'd hit me if I didn't mention her.
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  4. Lol thanks for the mention @10ft. Ralph Macchio .

    I was taught firearm safety at a very young age and received my first gun at 14. I now own over 10. I also sold guns/bows for a few years. I'd be happy to answer your questions.

    The first rule in gun safety is to never point the gun at anything you don't intend to kill.
    My stepfather used to smack be in the back of the head if I even slightly crossed anyone with the barrel even for a split second.

    With pistols, revolvers, and semi-auto handguns you hold the gun in both hands. After writing a paragraph about how to properly hold a handgun I realized it is much easier to just show you.


    The second rule of firearm safety is that you never place your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot. Instead,you place your finger stretched out alongside the barrel of the firearm to the side and above the trigger, as shown above.

    With semi-automatic handguns, like the one pictured above, it is important to watch where your hand is at when reloading. The magazine loads into the bottom of the handle. If you are too hasty and you sloppily shove it up with your palm you will catch a piece of skin where it connects and it.will.hurt. Similarly, when you release the slide to chamber a round if you grip it in a sloppy manner and you're not paying attention to where your hand is you will pinch a piece of skin and.it.will.hurt.

    When dealing with all guns (except shot guns when hunting flying game) you squeeze the trigger, you don't pull it. When you pull the trigger it compromises your accuracy, and when it comes to high powered rifles, pulling the trigger would give your a bruised shoulder and possibly a black eye. Speaking of rifle safety, when you're looking through a scope you need to have your eye at least 4-5 inches away from the scope. If your eye is too close you'll wind up with a nasty bruise/cut around your eye. When placing your rifle or shotgun to your shoulder, you want it cradled in that soft spot on the inside of your shoulder, above your armpit. If you feel around there with your hand you'll feel a kind of groove where it sits. That area absorbs the impact of the fire, whereas if it were to sit on top of the muscle it would badly bruise you.

    With shotguns, it's important to watch what you're doing when you're loading the shells. It's not hard to load them but you can clip your finger if you aren't paying attention.

    • How effective are guns based on calibre? What the fuck is a calibre, exactly
    The caliber refers to the diameter of the bullet and sometimes the length. For instance, you can have a .300 Winmag, a 30-06, a .308, and a .300 Shortmag. These all have a length of 30mm. The 06 (pronounced 'ot' 6), and the 08, refer to the length. you can have a winmag and a shortmag. The difference id the length.

    You want to have the right caliber for the right 'job.' When it comes to hunting deer I use a .270. My best friend uses a 30-06. My boyfriend also uses a .270. In his opinion, a 30-06 would destroy the meat because it's bigger and would cause more damage. You can't use a .22 caliber on big game unless you're firing point blank at it's head. It would only injure the animal.

    When it comes to handguns you can buy rounds such as Hornady Critical Defense. These rounds have a red kind of point at the end that cause a mushrooming effect of the bullet that causes maximum damage. See the picture below.


    You can also buy snake shot or bird shot. These are often used by hikers or campers. A revolver cartride is filled with smallk BBs called shot like a shot gun. This way they can pack thier revolver for self defense and use it to shoot a snake or bird in close range.

    Then you have shot gun shells. Unlike pistols or revolvers, the larger the number, the smaller the BB. For example, in rifles, a .300 is bigger than a .270. However, with shotguns 4 shot is bigger than 6 shot. When you buy shells you look at the shot and length to decide what you need. The length depends on your gun, the shot depends on what you're got to shoot. When hunting, the more shot you have the wider the spread. Therefore, when I'm dove hunting I want something like a 6 or 8 shot because doves are small and fly alone mostly so I need a large spread. When duck or goose hunting I might use a 4 or 6 shot. You can also buy chokes for your shot gun. Chokes are little cylinder pieces that screw into the end of your shotgun to manipulate your spread. For instance, you can buy a turkey choke. As I said earlier, when you're using a shotgun you don't pull the trigger you 'slap' it.

    Kevlar vests are very very effective when deflecting, or should I say, absorbing the bullet and prevent it from penetrating though the vest.

    • What are some of the primary differences between historical firearms, and firearms of the modern day
    The biggest difference in time saving. Though a lot of historical firearms took black powder, the time to reload was ridiculous. You had to pull out your powder horn, funnel the powder into the gun (and not spill it which could be difficult if under pressure), pack it down, pull the hammer back, and pull the trigger. Whereas, with modern rifles, you load up to three rounds in the gun through a magazine and when you're ready to reload you simply lift up, slide back, and push forward the bolt action, and bam you're ready to go. On the other hand, older guns were made much better than they are now. They were made to last and were virtually impossible to jam. A general rule with firearms is the more moving parts you have, the more opportunities you have for something to fail.

    • What are some of the basic tactics and strategies involved in firearm use?
    I can't really answer this because I mostly use firearms for hunting and there isn't much 'tactic' there. I am not trained in military or police uses of firearms.

    • If there are any particular myths you'd like to dispel about firearms, which ones in particular here grind your gears?
    Hmmm... Not particular myths but I'll tell you things things that grind my gears.

    1. When people refer to the magazine as a clip.
    2. When people try to be cool by holding the pistol in one hand and to the side like a gangster.
    3. When people try to be col and do a hip shot with their 'shotty.' You're not cool.
    4. When people attempt to close the chamber on a revolver by flicking their wrist to make it fly shut. It ruins the parts over time.
    5. When people think Glock is the only pistol worth having. They're good but not my favorite. People think they are the best because they are police issued guns. I've heard people claim you can drop them in the sand and water and they still will fire perfectly. Well I cal bullshit. I had one that misfired 3 times, and I took care of it.

    Other things to research:

    Learn about the different safetys. On pistols you can have a button that you have to press. Usually it's located right behind the trigger on the side of the trigger house. Remember, red means dead. However they may have an additional trigger lock or some models have an additional safety on the back of the grip. Sig Sauer has some models with these.

    Smaller guns pack a bigger punch. A .357 magnum with a 4" barrel will pack a bigger punch than one with a 6" barrel.

    I've found when selling guns Sig Sauers such as the P226, is a good model for females because the slide release is farther back on the slide than most other handguns. So for females with short thumbs they can release the slide with one hand rather than using her other hand to release it.

    Revolvers have no safety. Their safety is you. That is why they are a preferable home defense gun. You don't have to fiddle with finding the safety at 3 am if there's a break in. Also, with less parts means they are highly unlikely to jam which also makes a great home defense gun.

    I know there's more I wanted to add, but I lost it. I will edit if I think of it.


    I know there are a lot of typos. I don't have time to fix them right now. Don't judge.
    #5 Hope, Jan 29, 2016
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    Ahem. I mean, I would be perfectly happy to answer whatever questions you have because of my background in both owning firearms and having served in the military, along with a poopload of time spent reading military non-fiction stuff, I should be able to explain everything in a reasonably detailed and accurate way.

    Letsa go.

    • How does one fire a gun without horribly injuring themselves like an idiot?

    Those lovely protrusions coming out of the back of the rifle? It's a stock, and it is your best friend in controlling a firearm (hand guns, obviously, don't have this luxury because it utterly defeats their purpose, which is as a secondary defense weapon when your primary weapon goes down, or you need something that can be used to react quickly to threats like in police work). No real rocket science on how to use it properly, you simply bury it into your preferred shooting shoulder, although not on the bone unless you feel like making shit uncomfortable for yourself. It should feel natural and comfortable to the shooter, although if you're wearing any form of armour, webbing, or tactical vest, you might be kind of limited in where you can rest it; as long as it's stable, that's the most important part. That's why collapsible stocks are really popular, it lets you adjust the length of the butt stock to match the shooter's body proportions. If you have a bulky outfit, it will make a shorter stock length much more comfortable for the shooter because the extra padding/ pouches/ fabric will push out where the weapon will sit, which may make operating it uncomfortable or unnatural. On the flip side, having too short of a stock is a common complaint a lot of shooters have for guns, and while it's totally possible for a larger stature shooter to be effective with those weapons, just imagine yourself like a T-rex with scrunched up arms for a very crude idea of why that can be slightly awkward for doing stuff like changing a magazine or making sight adjustments.

    Another thing I'll touch on briefly that also ties into the next question is caliber. A pistol caliber weapon like a submachine gun will have very little recoil compared to a full-sized assault rifle with an intermediate cartridge that was designed to bridge the gap between an SMG and a machine gun, or god forbid you're a sadist and you want to fire a battle rifle on automatic, which fires full-sized cartridges, which are usually in the same range as sniper rifles. The bigger the bullet, the more you have to lock that shit down before you pull the trigger because something like a 7.62x51mm will fucking rock your world if you do not have it buried in your shoulder and you aren't putting your weight into it, and even then you do not want to fire more than a couple rounds at a time because the recoil is immense and you will likely miss. I discovered exactly why you do not rush your 7.62 general purpose machine gun when engaging multiple targets during my soldier's qualification training when I didn't readjust the bipod correctly and soon found a 22 pound piece of 1950s designed Belgian hardware hammering my neck.

    As far as stance goes, almost universally, you want to lean into your shots, with the leg on the same side of your shooting hand braced behind you. This creates a very stable firing position while standing and kneeling (and kneeling is preferable to standing for stability because you have your off-knee to rest your elbow on). You do NOT want to use automatic unless you are within about 20 meters or less, you will chew through ammo at an alarming rate and your accuracy will be shit. Fire in short bursts because it's entirely possible to burn through a 30 round magazine in only a couple seconds on automatic. Semi-automatic makes firearms a lot more stable and your ammunition is conserved, and it takes away the ability to screw yourself over with a mag dump if you lose fire control discipline for whatever reason.

    Last point I'll make for this question is it's only been very recent that firearms manufactures are starting to make guns left handed friendly, so you need to be mindful of a gun's ejection patterns if you're a left handed shooter or you might be pelting yourself with brass, ESPECIALLY with a bullpup (a firearm where the firing mechanism is behind the trigger group; it makes for a very compact weapon with the ability to maintain a full length barrel) where your face will be right next to the goddamn ejection port. If you're using a weapon like that, make sure you can configure it to a lefty layout or join the rest of the 90% of the population and learn how to shoot right handed.
    • How effective are guns based on calibre? What the fuck is a calibre, exactly?

    Caliber is the dimension of a bullet (the actual projectile; the brass part is called a casing, the cap on the base of the cartridge is the primer. The entire assembled bullet is known properly as a cartridge or round), which takes into consideration width before length, so it's somewhat important to mention the total dimension of the cartridge because if someone were selling you 7.62mm bullets, you might think you're getting 7.62x51mm NATO and he hands you off a case of 7.62x39mm, which are what AK-47s fire (fun fact; AK-47s haven't been made since the late 1940s, everything you've likely ever seen in the media has been an AKM or one of the numerous knock-offs). For a more ridiculous example, take a look at this picture:


    Both are .50 caliber bullets as they have the same width. The one on the left is a .50 Action Express, which is that powerful round that made the Desert Eagle such a popular culture icon it is today because if you've ever played a first person shooter, you know that 6 pound beast of a hand cannon generally means "ridiculously OP POS, plz nerf". The one on the right is the .50 BMG, a round that's used by weapons like the M2 machine gun and the Barrett M-98/M-107 series of rifles that weigh around 32 pounds out of necessity because of the absurdly powerful recoil those things put out. Considering they were designed in WWI for stopping goddamn tanks and have continued that proud tradition of tearing into light armoured vehicles like your crazy ex girlfriend pokes holes into condoms, they're near the upper limit for what a human can shoot relatively comfortably, although you can really hurt yourself if you don't know what the hell you're doing. You do not want that much force slamming full on into your collar bone, for instance.

    So, as you can see, caliber is really important to be specific. You might be wondering why two bullets of the same diameter can have such different destructive potential and ballistic properties, and that's because longer cartridges hold more gunpowder, which creates more explosive force which propels the bullet with greater velocity. While I'm not a physicist and can't explain the finer points of ballistics to you, the faster something moves, the more kinetic energy it has, and how much energy that bullet retains by the time it hits the target will depend on how much of that energy is transferred to the target. When a bullet enters the body, it creates an entry hole and a temporary cavity, which is where the real damage from a round comes from. Basically, the tissue expands around the force of the bullet and tears into the body in an area around the bullet. You can see it in work on ballistic gel videos, like this:

    That's why stuff like hollow points (rounds with cavities at the point) are so lethal, because they're designed to expand when they enter the body without penetrating through, where full metal jackets (the bullet is entirely encased in a copper shell) are meant to just pass on through without complicated trauma. International laws state that militaries are prohibited from using expanding rounds because it's considered inhumane and it's a nightmare to treat from a medical standpoint. Ideally, a soldier incapacitates another to take him out of the fight, but it gives him either a merciful death or a better chance of recovering and returning to his family. Wounding, rather than killing, also means you're forcing the enemy to make a choice to take yet another gun or two out of a firefight to tend to the wounded soldier or extract him.

    A really simplified way of looking at it is smaller: less powerful, more controllable. Bigger: more powerful, less controllable. This is why pistol calibers tend to stick to tried and true stuff like 9mm and .40 S&W, assault rifles in 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm, and machine-guns and sniper rifles in stuff like 7.62x51mm. I'll briefly mention shotgun gauges, which are different than how it works for other cartridges. No doubt you've heard about 12 gauge shotguns; they are by and far the most popular hunting, police, and military shells. How a gauge works is it's how much weight a lead sphere that fits the diameter of a barrel would have, measured in fractions of a pound. This is where it can be misleading; one would assume a 20 gauge is a bigger shell than an 8 gauge, but it's actually the opposite. It's 1/20th of a pound compared to 1/8th of a pound. Bigger shells means larger shot.

    • What are some of the primary differences between historical firearms, and firearms of the modern day?

    Depends how far back you go, but I'll stick to conventional cartridges of the late 1800s to modern day since they're largely the exact same, functionally.

    How a firearm works actually hasn't changed that much in that time frame. You have a primer based cartridge, a bolt assembly that has a firing pin that strikes that cartridge to ignite it/ an extraction claw to eject the spent casing, and that's pretty much how old bolt actions that were being used back when the British still wore red and assault rifles US marines are running around with operate. Those old bolt action rifles are actually remarkably similar in operation and functionality as the most modern bolt action sniper rifles, which are more or less really specialized hunting rifles in truth.

    The main innovations came from stuff like the invention of automatic pistols (which means self-loading, not the traditional sense of the word automatic) from revolvers because of things like detachable magazines, the ability to fire semi-automatically, and having a smaller profile. The invention of machine-guns was a huge change in warfare. While the Gatling gun had been around since the 1800s and had a pretty impressive record, the invention of belt-fed machine-gun (belt-fed machine-guns are where all the ammunition is linked by either a continuous fabric belt with slots to hold the rounds or metal disintegrating links that are held together by the rounds themselves until they are fired and come apart, ejecting out a different port than the casings) introduced the world to the first real automatic weapons that were capable of sustained fire over long distances with fire rates that were frankly terrifying, especially since the vast majority of WWI was fought using bolt action rifles and artillery. You now had a single weapon that could easily cut down an entire platoon, and that's a huge reason why the war turned into a series of never-moving trench battles across the Western front; running across the openness of no-man's land exposes you to machine-gun fire, and the officers had to make the call of when to attack, knowing the casualties from that weapon alone would be immense.

    The other big innovations were scaling down machine-gun technology to make submachine guns (thus the name), which were designed with trench warfare in mind and to fire pistol cartridges because if you're fighting trench to trench, the volume of fire coming from one gun can easily clear out a section of a trench; you don't need to be accurate when you have 30 rounds going down a narrow corridor. The next big innovation would be the invention of the assault rifle, which which technically invented by the Russians in 1915 with the Fedorov Avtomat but took its modern form with the MKB-42, which was invented by the Germans in 1942 and would directly lead to the StG-44, which is a pretty famous design that would go on to render every other weapon, save for the machine guns, obsolete in a squad capacity since it could simply do anything a submachine-gun or a semi-automatic rifle could accomplish. Since then, there's been improvements and in modern times, you can customize the hell out of your firearm with all manner of attachments like optical sights, grips, flashlights, lasers, blah blah blah, but ultimately the functionality of the weapon hasn't changed very much at all for several decades. There's been attempts at making caseless ammunition, and while its proven to work, it hasn't taken off with any serious buyers yet. Cartridges haven't had to evolve because their modern incarnations work pretty damn well for what they're meant to do.
    • How effective are defenses against firearms? (Ex: Kevlar vests, plate mail, riot blast shields.)

    Find cover.

    No seriously, do not expose yourself needlessly and as soon as you hear shots, you hit the dirt and organize a defense. As of right now, there's not many kinds of body armour strong enough to stop a most conventional rifle rounds (in fact, vast majority only stop pistol rounds), and there's been an introduction of personal defense weapons that fire small, but incredibly fast, cartridges that can pierce most body armour, and that's the thing; any kind of armour weighs a lot. Most soldiers are issued flakvests instead of bulletproof vests because they're meant to stop shrapnel and not much else, but it's not going to stop a bullet. As a soldier, you're going to be on very long operations and that can mean hiking on foot for hours upon hours, and the more weight you're carrying, the more exhausted you'll be. Now, the best compromise countries like the US have found is wearing plate carriers, which you can slip a 6.5 pound ceramic plate into a vest that can offer adequate projection, but a full vest can easily start to weigh around 20-50 pounds, depending on materials. One thing I noticed pretty quickly is those kevlar helmets get pretty fucking uncomfortable after several hours, and if it were up to me, I'd have worn a soft cap most of the time. Considering most body armour isn't even going to stop an AK round from penetrating, less is more as a general rule of thumb. You don't want your soldiers collapsing in exhaustion in the middle of a several hour firefight after being on the march for hours before even that.

    So, you're left with using your environment for protection and concealment. There's two kinds of cover, soft cover, which conceals you visibly but won't stop incoming fire, and hard cover, which does both. Contrary to popular belief, concrete walls aren't going to stop shit, so you have to but a lot of dirt, a thick enough tree, or even a friggin' building between you and those shooting at you. Visual cover's good in the sense that if the enemy can't see where you are, they won't know where to shoot, and it also gives you a mobility advantage as long as you're in cover.

    As for something like a riot shield, that probably won't stop more than a pistol round, but a ballistic shield can take a tremendous amount of punishment... at the cost of weighing a metric shitton. Try holding something that weighs 16 pounds in one arm for as long as you can, and you'll get an idea of how fast that arm will turn into a shaky noodle from the strain. This is why ballistic shields tend to only be used by SWAT teams and hostage rescue teams because when you're doing room to room operations that are supposed to be over lightning fast, an operator can feasibly manage such a cumbersome beast, but a soldier out in the field? Forget about it.

    • What are some of the basic tactics and strategies involved in firearm use?
    Depends on what kind of setting/ unit/ occupation you're in, but generally, stick to semi-automatic almost all the time unless you're literally room to room fighting, make sure your magazines are readily accessible and easy to change (dump pouches are wonderful things, they basically let you drop your spent magazines without trying to fit them back into their pouches... oh, and don't dump your magazines and leave them there. It's government property and the last thing you want to do is find yourself with a chance to top up your magazines with your spare boxes only to find out you only have 2 left when you started with 5. Video games are fucking terrible about that), configure your firearm to how it's comfortable for you as a shooter and for what kind of operation you expect to be in (e.g. you probably don't need a 4x optic in close quarters fighting because it makes things up close very hard to see), and stuff like that. There's a billion videos and articles on the experts that will tell you just as many different ideas, including a lot I am not fond of, so the rule of thumb is do what works for you.

    If you're asking for actual infantry tactics or whatever, that's a looot more complicated and involved.
    • If there are any particular myths you'd like to dispel about firearms, which ones in particular here grind your gears?
    I particularly get annoyed by all the armchair generals who play entirely too much Counter-Strike (seriously, when did a game from the late 90s all of a sudden become insanely popular again?) and other military shooters who think they know what they're talking about and give some pretty horrible advice in general.

    A Desert Eagle, for instance, is a pretty shitty handgun for anything more than being a "fun gun" because of it's monstrous size and weight, the fact it has an incredibly powerful recoil impulse, mediocre accuracy, low magazine capacity, and the inability to thread on a suppressor or put any sort of sights on it unless it's a custom job. It's not the pocket sniper rifle everyone thinks it is.

    Firing in automatic is NOT a good idea in general, you will miss almost all of your shots because of recoil. Even a submachine gun is better off restricted to burst fire.

    5.56x45mm (.223) is not as terrible as everyone makes it out to be. There's better out there, but if you have a strong stomach, feel free to Google image search with safe mode off the kind of damage it can do to a body. It has a pretty excellent range, great accuracy, and it's fast. There's new cartridges that are coming out that perform better ballistics-wise as an alternative caliber for the same kinds of weapons, but if you run into people shitting on it on the internet, take what anyone's saying with a grain of salt. Likewise, some people will tell you a 7.62x39mm round isn't accurate at long range, but with the right set up and enough skill, you can hit targets at 600 meters with even an AK. A lot of the reputations and myths about those cartridges are largely from old Cold war mentalities and propaganda that people carried over and some gun owners, like any other group of enthusiasts, will do anything to justify why their preferences and purchases are better than yours.

    AK-47s are actually way the fuck less reliable than AR-15 (M-16s) when mud is involved. The AK-47 has a reputation for being this invincible commie super gun that has super loose tolerances (meaning a lot of wiggle room for parts to move around) that can simply plow through anything that gets inside of it. However, it is a very open design that if it gets covered in wet mud and rocks and grit like you'd find in trench warfare, that stuff is going inside of the rifle, and it will stop it from firing. The AR-15, on the other hand, is excellently sealed off from the outside world precisely because of its tight tolerances. Don't get me wrong, an AK will handle whatever you throw at it and rarely, if ever, jam or fail its operator, but people often dismiss AR-15s as unreliable because of their introduction in the Vietnam war, where it was largely the shitty sub-par ammunition that screwed the guns up and the fact a lot of soldiers weren't always properly trained in how to clean these new weapons. That aside, it's been over 50 years and the design has been upgraded numerous times since then.

    A huge peeve is people calling magazines clips. That is super incorrect. This picture is enough to explain why:


    Rule of thumb: A clip can fill a magazine, but a magazine can't fill a clip. Any rifle that's fed by clips has an internal magazine.

    Annnnnd I'm done.
    #6 Dervish, Jan 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
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  6. I'm writing this to say that I'll be dumping a massive post after work.

    I'll be splitting it into four parts;
    • First I'll be answering your questions in any way that hasn't already been mentioned.
    • Second I'll be covering anything else about firearms and shooting practices.
    • Third I'll be covering combat myths and tactics. What I know form those inexperienced and the tactics used by the US Army, modern and Cold War era.
    • Lastly I'll go quickly over the various injuries one can gain in a combat situation, how it effects the body, and how to battlefield treat these injuries.
    Prepare to learn in a few hours.

    Source: 8 years as a Combat Medic attached to a frontline Infantry Company.
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  7. OK, before I get started here, I want to preface that my experience comes specifically from the United States Army and living in a very Rural area in the US. While you can easily make similarities to other First-World militaries, they are not all the same. I'll be trying to be as general as I can for this guide.

    I also want to state that the 1st and 2nd parts of this response are largely additive to previous responses. The 3rd section should be very useful for anyone wanting a realistic portrayal of modern armies. And I would highly recommend that everyone reads and shares the 4th part of this, as these are simple skills and knowledge that could save your's, or another's life in an active shooter event.

    I. Questions Answered
    To add on to the other comments in this thread, I would also recommend a number of useful tips and tricks that generally see use by shooters, both military and civilian.

    • Closing your non-dominant eye is a common use by hunters to help them focus in on a target, but many combat shooters using a carbine or other rifle will keep both eyes open to keep watch for additional targets.
    • When it comes to rifles, it's generally recommended to inhale before shooting, focusing on the target, shooting, then exhaling. This helps to prevent movement while aiming.
    • When pulling the trigger, many use their the tip of their finger rather than wrapping their entire finger around the trigger. It's common practice to keep the trigger held down for 1 second after pulling (except for burst and Automatic fire,) this keeps your finger at the ready in case you need to fire again.
    • If you can, firing from the prone position will give you the most stability outside of a stand, or something solid to rest upon. Taking a knee and firing is also preferable to standing, partly because of the stability and partly because it decreases how much of you the enemy can shoot at.
    • Truth be told, most Infantrymen never wear any ear or eye protection when shooting outside of the range.
    • Most carbines and machine guns used by the army have simple dot scopes, a good number of people also prefer to simply aim down the gun's built-in sights (known as Iron-Sights).
    • ACOGs are not used as often as you might think in combat, but are still common among infantrymen.
    • Heavy machine gunners have heat-vision scopes in certain circumstances.
    • Most night-vision (we call them NODs, for "Night Optical Device") is worn on the soldier's helmet, rather than attached to the weapon's scope, but it is possible. A laser system can be mounted to the gun, making nigh-time firing as simple as lining the laser (which you can only see with night-vision) up with the target and pulling the trigger.
    • The common practice for soldiers is to fire in three-round bursts, or firing three rounds in sucsession. The common term goes; "one in the head, two in the chest".
    The only thing I'd add to Dervish's awesome touch on this would be to mention the advent of rifling in weapons. Rifling is the spiral of groves within a weapon's barrel, this causes the bullet to spin within the barrel before flying through the air, increasing the accuracy of the round. This is similar to how an American Football is thrown more accurately if it is spiraled instead of just tossed. Rifling was first used in the mid-1800's, it's one of the advancements that made the American Civil War so bloody. Before the concept of rifling, firing a weapon was a lot like throwing a rock, sometimes you hit exactly where you intend to, most times you don't. And the chance of you hitting the same space twice is next to impossible.

    You can find more about historical weapons, how they were shot, and other by looking up those for the specific era of time your interested in.

    I'll get more into equipment later, but the average Kevlar vest used by the army can survive a few impact from a significant distance, but you should really replace it after getting hit. It will hurt, even with a ceramic plate, and bruises and marks are common.

    The standard kevlar helmet can withstand bost grazes, shrapenal, and small-arms fire, but chances of surviving diminish with direct hits.

    • Silencers, or as they're commonly called; "Suppressors," actually do very little to muffle the sound of a weapon. Their main advantage is masking the muzzle flash, making it more difficult to find you based on the light emitting from your barrel.
    • You don't have to be a redneck or army nut to enjoy shooting guns, it's a very fascinating sport, steeped in tradition and history. If you never got a chance to shoot, look up clubs and organizations around your area, these are good skills to know.
    #8 Cpt Toellner, Jan 29, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2016
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  8. II. Firearm Basics

    I thought it would be usefull to break down the different types of actions used in weaponry;​
    • Muzzle-loaded weapons are just that, think of old muskets, what goes down the barrel will come up the barrel.​
    • Shot guns commonly have the iconic pump action, requiring you to pull back on it and push forward to fire.​
    • Lever actions were common in the past, but quickly becoming rare.​
    • Bolt-Actions are one of the most distinctive actions, requiring a single shot, you unlock the bolt, pull it back, push it forward, and lock it before firing again, this is most commonly used in rifles.​
    • Semi-Automatic simply means that every-time you pull the trigger, one bullet is fired. Media likes to refer to some rifles as "assault rifles," when it is simply just a semi-auto.​
    • Burst is when you pull the trigger and 3 or five rounds are fired for every pull.​
    • Automatic is the gun firing constantly as long as you hold the trigger down, say goodbye to your ammunition.​

    You will hear politicians and news media refer to "assault," or "tactical" weaponry. But when they refer to this, they are normally just talking about semi-automatic rifles. You can put fancy rail systems, collapsible stocks, a flashlight, and a cup-holder on your gun, it's still just a civilian rifle.

    Now, let's look at the basic weapons used by the Military;
    • Your bread and butter will be the carbine, simply a rifle with an Automatic or Burst option along with the Semi-Auto option.
      • These will come with a number of add-ons like grenade launchers, flare launchers, and even a breaching shotgun. But do remember that this adds weight, a crucial factor when aiming.
    • Sidearms usually come in the form of a simple 9 millimeter pistol, a pretty mediocre gun when it comes down to it, and definitely something you only want to use as a last option. Not everyone will be carrying one of these.
    • Shotguns are issued, but hardly ever used, only in some urban operations by a limited number of individuals.
    • There are a number of squad-level machine guns, small enough to be carried by one guy, but big enough to lay down some serious firepower.
      • Gunners will often have a buddy along with them, who has his own rifle but also carries a bag with spare barrels. Machine gun barrels will overheat after prolonged use and need to be switched out if you want to keep accuracy. Many machine guns are belt-fed, meaning you can fire more, for longer periods of time.
      • The common practice is to fire in bursts of 5-8 rounds rather than holding down the trigger. This is to encourage accuracy rather than the "spray and pray" mentality.
    • The .50 Cal Machine gun is the Granddaddy of all machine guns. It's big, heavy, and lays down fire like no other. Don't expect any mobile squad to have one of these. You will only find these mounted or in defense positions.
    • .50 caliber rifles are used by scouts and snipers, but that is getting out of my field of expertise and it really varies at that point.
    • There are a number of grenades that can be used, but you will very likely only see two different kinds used by an actual unit;
      • The Fragmentation grenade, it's not the explosive you need to watch out for, it's the shrapnel or "fragments," that shoot out into everything around.
      • Smoke grenades come in every kind of color, take a moment to cook off before actually emitting smoke, and get really fucking hot when in use, so don't hold it.
    • I will get to artillery later, but it's best to summarize that artillery are really big guns that can fire really far. The modern pieces require a whole set-up to fire, lines of 4-5 guns taking somewhere around a half-day to set up. These are operated by a 4-7 man crew, but one dude would be able to shoot the thing off if he really had to.
    • You will literally never see a bayonet in combat, it's outdated, decreases your accuracy, and would only be used if you really really fucked up.
    • All those cool weapons are gadgets you see in games and movies? Yeah, front-line soldiers never have access to that kind of equipment. Infantry units will have only the most basic weapons at their disposal.
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  9. Here's a helpful diagram!
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  10. I feel like Toellner, Hope, and I are the only members of the bangstick club all of a sudden.


    *After taking a firearms safety course, visiting a controlled range, or with responsible friends or family members k. These are dangerous weapons that nobody should handle recklessly because you have a lot of power in your hands which should never, ever be taken lightly**.

    **We'll just ignore the fact I practiced bayonet charging with my Lee Enfield against water bottles with a loaded but unchambered rifle a couple times.

    One thing I want to add on to Toellner's last point is that without this becoming a big political point, I really do think everyone, even those staunchly opposed to firearms or are strong gun control advocates should try shooting at least once in their lives, and there's plenty of controlled indoor ranges that you can rent guns at without a license. If nothing else, it will give you an insight of why people are enthusiastic about it and help dispel a lot of the negative associations with shooting; it's really a non-aggressive and fun activity that anyone, (supervised) kids and adults, men or women and all equally enjoy. Understanding that those scary looking military-style guns aren't functionally any different than any other semi-automatic rifle is a big thing I think a lot of people need to come to terms with.

    Groups like the NRA are pretty toxic, I think, and don't necessarily reflect the views of most gun owners. Case in point, I believe I read that a recent survey showed that 84% of gun owners in the US are in favour of background checks and licensing, which is honestly not surprising because every time some dickwad goes on a mass shooting, keep in mind it's also law abiding gun owners who come under pressure in the aftermath because way too many in the gun control camp think that banning individual firearms is going to solve the problems, and it won't. It's a matter of property we invested a lot of money and working hours into affording suddenly getting banned because of the actions of individual monsters against tens of tens of thousands of firearm owners who never have, and never will, use their property against another human being. I for one do not want to be told I'm a criminal again because I had the audacity to buy a gun that superficially resembles an AK-47 (it's a Vz58 variant, if you're curious) as a non-prohibited rifle with my firearms license only to have the RCMP reclassify it as prohibited overnight. Thankfully, that was overturned after a couple years, but the fact it happened before is enough to make my blood boil. Why should I have to surrender something I paid $850 for because it looks scary to the uneducated?

    Like I said, I don't want to derail this into a political debate about gun control (we've had a couple discussions about that that exploded), all I'm asking is despite your views of guns in general, try to keep an open mind and not get sucked into the toxic bipartisan bickering and realize that people who are gun enthusiasts are no different than anyone else. They're your neighbours, friends, relatives, and we hope we never have to use our firearms for anything but recreational purposes, be it target shooting, competitions, or hunting.
  11. She let me out to share what little I know. Firearms vary in size and shape and have existed since early 1400's maybe sooner. Early firearms were your basic muzzle loaders. Cast iron barrel on a wood pole. Slowly this developed towards more advanced firearms in the same category. Your flint lock rifles then advanced to percussion caps. Next came brass cartridges. Now, At this point, is when the modern fire arm started to take root. Modern Military fire arms come in many spices. Machine guns come in light medium and heavy. Light is your squad automatic. These can be carried by an individual and have tremendous fire power but are limited in range and can be limited in fire rates due to a lack of QCBs (Quick change Barrel). Medium machine guns have to an extent faded but live on in a new designation GPMG. GPMG are easy to change from heavier squad support to long range suppression. Weapon's like the M240B can be used at greater ranges and greater rates of fire. They can have QCB's or be bipod or tripod mounted. Last but not least, in fact its the biggest, Heavy machine guns are powerful and are even capable putting down aircraft that are low flying to light armor. They are almost always equipped with QCB's tripods and/or vehicle mounted. If you want some. Get Icystorm to let me out of the dungeon.
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  12. Yeah, that's not at all the objective of this thread and I would shut it down really hard given the first opportunity if necessary. The primary objective of this thread is learning.

    Of which, @Hope @Cpt Toellner @Dervish @Windsong Holy shit y'all, that's a lot of information and it's all incredibly useful. I can't promise how much of it will end up in the guide in question (because it's a general combat guide, so it's more getting people familiar with the basic concepts of several different topics as opposed to a full-bore dedicated firearms guide), but seriously, holy shit.


    THERE IS SO MUCH INFORMATION I CAN'T EVEN CONTAIN MY LOVE FOR ALL OF YOU RIGHT NOW. I will definitely link this thread in the combat guide's firearms section later and give y'all special thanks. Y'all this was fucking amazing. I should do this type of thing more often. General Discussion actually did something extraordinarily productive and enlightening. ENLIGHTENING!!! Eat your heart out, @Grumpy there's some hope for this section after all.

    I do have a couple more questions if y'all don't mind though. Specifically, scenarios. Since this is all very useful information on how firearms work, but I'd like your thoughts on what you'd do in a couple different situations. Basically "applying knowledge to conceptual scenario." Assume whatever other modifiers you wish to the scenarios.
    • A. Your firearm jams in the middle of a firefight, and you're behind hard cover. You do not have any other people near you to help you, but the enemy is several hundred (say, 500-600) meters away. What do you do?
    • B. You have to use your firearm (without a bayonet or other such attachment) as a melee weapon. What's the most efficient way of using it as one? (I've heard similarities to a club, using the butt/stock of a weapon, but I'm wondering if it's wrong.)
    • C. You're hit in the leg or arm with a bullet. Let's assume low calibre (as I think it's fair to assume that high calibre ammunition would do so much damage it's not even worth asking the question), do you think you could fight through it to continue the fight until you could pull out? Would it aggravate the wound at all, or has the damage already been done? @Cpt Toellner specifically since you were a combat medic: How likely is it that long term damage occurred as a result of a hit? (I'm not going to ask about a torso hit, because it's fair to assume that 95% of torso hits are critical hits that need immediate medical attention. I did pass basic biology.)
    • D. In a survival situation (say, fictionally like zombies, or non-fictionally like a home invasion) would you ever allow someone entirely untrained to use a firearm in a pinch? Why, or why not?
    • E. You break into a gun store. (Again, fictional survival scenario.) You see before you an candy cane aisle assortment of weapons of every conceivable type: From high-calibre sniper rifles, to mid-range rifles, to hand guns of various descriptions, to submachine guns, and so on. What would be the best kind of weapon for someone with limited to no experience to use? (I'm imagining not hand guns.) What would be the worst kind of weapon for someone with limited to no experience use?

    @Icy's Slave I just saw your reply as I hit the "reply" button. Assume I'm jumping up and down with joy for you too. :ferret:
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  13. I'm working up the massive Combat section of my guide, but I was seriously considering making a video to show off some of my guns and show the differences between some things.
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  15. A. If my firearm jammed and I was safe behind cover I would eject the round and reload. In reality, depending on the problem it could jam again in which case I'd hope I'd have a secondary weapon to turn to. There could be multiple reasons why a gun would jam from cheap ammo to an empty cartridge stuck in the barrel. In that situation I wouldnt have time to investigate . I'd only be able to try to reload and pray to God it fires.

    B. There is a shotgun called a Remington 870. It's a rather cheap gun, but almost everyone who owns guns has or has had one at one time or another in their life. At the store where I worked there was an ongoing joke that if you needed to you could use it as a paddle if you lost your ores, or be used to beat off a bear. No I've never heard of this happening. However, the only way I can think of to use a gun other than its primary purpose is as a club, or possibly throw a handgun at an enemy hoping to knock him out? Lol shit

    C. Though I'm not the best person to ask this question, I'd say as long as a major artery wasn't hit I don't see why one couldn't fight through the wound. Adrenaline is no joke.

    D. In a home invasion, no. In that case I'd just operate the gun myself. In a zombie type situation, yes. I figure in a case where zombies were after me I could pass a gun to someone and show them where the trigger was and tell them to point and shoot. The way I figure it is I die from zombies... I die from a gun. ... meh it's a chance worth taking.

    E. Actually if I broke into a gun store I'd steal a revolver. You don't have to worry about all the details you need to worry about with a rifle, shotgun, or pistol. There's no safety, no slide release, no magazine. You load it with 6 rounds and go about your business. While you're there you can buy steal a speed loader and set that up with 6 more rounds so you're good to go. Let's say you want to hide it since you just stole it... it's easier to hide that a long rifle or a shot gun.
  16. Couple minor corrections and my own two cents on machine-guns, just highlighted the areas in bold.

    Machine-guns tend to come in 3 classifications in modern times, the light machine-guns which are section-level weapons, general purpose machine-guns, which are platoon level weapons, and heavy machine guns, which are almost exclusively mounted or put in defensive positions, like you mentioned.

    LMGs actually do have quick change barrels, it's necessary by design because if you fire any weapon in sustained fire, the barrel will overheat and potentially catastrophically fail if you push it too far, which is why soldiers are trained to change it out after every belt of ammunition (generally speaking, it varies from army to army, but in the Canadian Forces, the rule of thumb is generally 100 rounds or every belt of ammunition, depending how much you've been firing that bad boy. They all have bipods, as well. LMGs aren't meant to be used like a rifle, although it is possible in some cases and some are configured as such, but generally before shooting, the shooter goes prone and lays down fire until he or she is ordered to move up. Light machine guns fire your usual carbine caliber that's usually inter changable with the rest of the squad's weapons. Range also isn't really an issue with these weapons because you're firing from a heavy and stable weapon, you can easily suppress targets from 600-800 meters with them, which is ideal. You can also find them mounted on vehicles, and squad gunners are trained to use them to engage airborne targets like helicopters by bracing them against their thighs, which is hardly ideal, but it's better than shitting the bed.

    General purpose machine-guns (GPMGs) are the full-sized cartridge firing guns that are usually limited to around 2 per platoon (compared to around 6 LMGs, which is 2 for each section) and are on the heavy side. These are not generally used for mobile attacks, and the shooters will usually be positioned in an overwatch position covering the platoon, and they're mainstays of any defensive formation and are what you'll generally find in a machine-gun nest. These come with bipods, and can be mounted to tripods, which extends their effective range to around 1,200-1,600 meters. The rate of fire all depends on the make of the gun, and some actually fire slower than LMGs. Slow firing rates aren't necessarily a bad thing, it helps with ammunition conservation and slower firing weapons tend to have better recoil impulses because they get a chance to stabilize between shots. These are most frequently mounted on vehicles and are what you'll find as the secondary armaments on vehicles like tanks an light armoured vehicles.

    Heavy machine-guns are the most uncommon of the 3 because they're so massive and heavy and aren't as versatile as the others because of simple logistics. As noted, they're almost exclusively mounted in defensive positions or put on vehicles because they are extremely heavy and the ammunition is as well, to boot. I don't have any experience with these weapons first hand and I've never even seen one being deployed in my brief time in the army reserve, so I don't have any glowing insights or training involved with these. I've played with more rocket launchers and recoiless rifles than I've seen live .50 caliber rounds in my life.

    To that first point, absolutely understood and agreed! You just asked what some peeves were, and well, ignorance about stuff around banning guns is one of them. I simply wanted to touch on why I think it's a good idea for everyone to become familiar with firearms so they understand them a bit better, and technically that's learning something. :D That said, I do not and will not go deeper into it past I want to point out I politically identify as a left of center moderate, so it shows that conservatives don't have a monopoly on being enthusiastic about guns. It's fun for all sides of the political spectrum!

    And you're absolutely welcome! As you probably guessed, I get into these kinds of discussions because they interest me heavily, and I like to pass on what I know to others, especially on a roleplay forum. If what I write helps somebody write more accurate and realistic combat scenes or even helps them learn something that'll influence a future firearms purchase, it's totally worth the effort! Preemptively, I appreciate the mention in the upcoming guide. I look forward to reading it!

    A gun related roleplay pet peeve, while it's on my mind: Somebody always wants to be the sniper without really taking the time to learn what a sniper actually does or expressing any real knowledge about long range shooting. Little details like talking about factors like adjusting for windage and elevation, knowing to relocate frequently, controlling your breathing, and a bunch of stuff like that adds a real sense of authenticity and gives a sense of detached control from being safely away from the chaos, and writing a sniper duel should be an intense game of cat and mouse where your adversary is just as good as you are, and whoever missteps first dies. By no means should you bog down a post with a lot of needless detail, but giving a bit of a window into the character's eyes and skills required for precision long range shooting and sniper/ reconnaissance is a lot more engaging than something along the lines of "Bob put the crosshairs on Dick's head and pulled the trigger, killing him. He took aim at Harry next and did the same.".

    Onto the survey answers! I haven't read the other answers yet, I will read them after.

    • A. Your firearm jams in the middle of a firefight, and you're behind hard cover. You do not have any other people near you to help you, but the enemy is several hundred (say, 500-600) meters away. What do you do?

    Keep calm, and carry on. At that distance, it's hard to see anyone, especially somebody in camouflage, and you're concealed and suppression fire isn't going to penetrate your cover, so you have plenty of time to clear the jam and get the weapon operational again. Depending on my orders and the situation at hand, I would make a retreat back to a known or suspected friendly position, or relocate to a more suitable defensive position if one was available. 500-600 meters is really quite a decent amount of space, although if they're starting platoon attacks that are suppressing your position while they're leap frogging their way to clear you out, you basically might be looking at your impending and unavoidable demise if you have nowhere to retreat to.

    • B. You have to use your firearm (without a bayonet or other such attachment) as a melee weapon. What's the most efficient way of using it as one? (I've heard similarities to a club, using the butt/stock of a weapon, but I'm wondering if it's wrong.)

    It's clubberin' time.

    Unless your barrel is hot and not covered in a sufficient grip, flip your rifle around and swing it like a bat. Most of your bulk and weight is in the stock of the rifle, so it's a definitely an efficient way to make use of it if you literally have no way to shoot it. That said, gripping it like a spear and using the stock as sort of a ram also gives you a more solid grip and you can put a lot of force into straight pummeling while being able to use your weapon as a makeshift shield. It's a desperate situation, and we humans are fantastic at finding creative ways to beat the shit out of each other if we want to live badly enough.

    • C. You're hit in the leg or arm with a bullet. Let's assume low calibre (as I think it's fair to assume that high calibre ammunition would do so much damage it's not even worth asking the question), do you think you could fight through it to continue the fight until you could pull out? Would it aggravate the wound at all, or has the damage already been done? @Cpt Toellner specifically since you were a combat medic: How likely is it that long term damage occurred as a result of a hit? (I'm not going to ask about a torso hit, because it's fair to assume that 95% of torso hits are critical hits that need immediate medical attention. I did pass basic biology.)

    You're not wrong; a big enough round would have a good chance of blowing chunks out of your body, so not fun!

    Honestly, it's impossible to say unless I actually experienced it. Some kinds of pain I am extremely tolerant to, and I have a very determined personality. I suffered some of the most unbearable and persistent pain in my life in the military but I came through. On the other hand, my Crohns disease can be so bad I can't even stand up or walk until the pain passes some days.

    If I'm assuming I'm perfectly healthy, and if I'm hyped up on adrenaline from the stresses of combat, I think I'd be able to fight through the pain to keep engaged in combat, but it's totally out of my hands if it damages me in a way that it renders the limb immobile or just too painful to move. Either way, people are depending on you, and if you can make their lives easier and stay in the fight long enough for the firefight to end, then you're helping your comrades hold the line and win the fight. I do know that even if I was in really unbearable pain in a situation like that, I'd still be struggling to keep at it because it's my life on the line, or somebody else's. Like Jesse Ventura quipped in Predator, "I ain't got time to bleed."
    • D. In a survival situation (say, fictionally like zombies, or non-fictionally like a home invasion) would you ever allow someone entirely untrained to use a firearm in a pinch? Why, or why not?

    I'd give them the crash course in how to use the firearm and some instruction of how to fight, and then no problem. It doesn't take very long to pass on the basic usage of a firearm, and if it's a survival situation, it's kind of important that everyone knows how to defend themselves because while it's fine and dandy if a few people in the group know how to use the guns and are the ones to carry them, if they die, you're leaving the inexperienced people to fumble around to figure things out in the worst possible situation. Seriously, a few hours of instruction and practice would potentially save lives and build confidence and trust among the group.

    Home invasion's kind of a different beast, in a way. Ideally, I'd like anyone in my home to know how to use a firearm, but since it's not exactly an apocalyptic scenario where everyone's locked in a war for resources or constantly struggling to survive, I'd probably have them go hide in an agreed upon safe place, and I honestly don't know if I'd want them having a gun in a situation like that because fear makes people do really dumb things... like accidentally shooting someone else in your house who isn't the intruder because you didn't ID the person. I guess it depended on who I was with and if we actually had a plan laid out for that kind of thing. I myself, if time allowed, would most certainly try to get to my guns and load them up, but chances are, I'd just as soon go for one of the numerous knives I have laying around my apartment or the spear I keep beside my desk. Defend yourself with whatever's at hand, pretty much. Chances are, somebody who's breaking into your house probably isn't expecting you to be home and probably aren't armed. Even if they are, they probably aren't interested in sticking around for a fight.

    • E. You break into a gun store. (Again, fictional survival scenario.) You see before you an candy cane aisle assortment of weapons of every conceivable type: From high-calibre sniper rifles, to mid-range rifles, to hand guns of various descriptions, to submachine guns, and so on. What would be the best kind of weapon for someone with limited to no experience to use? (I'm imagining not hand guns.) What would be the worst kind of weapon for someone with limited to no experience use?

    Well, ignoring the fact I own guns and know that going anywhere near a gunstore is probably a death sentence waiting to happen because everyone else has the same damn idea and the owners probably aren't keen on people stealing their wares (protip: don't try to steal guns from people who sell them for a living, you will end up with fucking holes), there's a few things I would look for and would point the inexperienced towards.

    Pistol caliber carbines are fucking fantastic starter guns that you can carry a lot of ammunition for, are lightweight and controllable, have very little recoil, and are super easy to operate, so they'd be the first choice. The next choice would be a semi-automatic military-style rifle like an SKS or a Mini-14 for similar reasons. For both those kinds of weapons, ammunition is usually plentiful and easy to come by, and you can carry quite a bit of it. I'd stay away from the heavier stuff and the larger caliber guns because they require a bit more proficiency to use well, and generally you're wanting the weapons to defend yourselves, not go on the offensive. Shotguns are actually a really solid choice, as well, although you do need quite a bit of practice to get used to reloading them and the recoil and be a bit much if you've never shot a gun before. However, if you run into a large predator in the wild, a shotgun with a slug or buck shot is going to be a life saver. You want something that someone would be comfortable carrying around for long periods of time, so a big heavy gun with giant bullets that are meant for taking down large game probably isn't want you want, unless of course the bad guys are only hurt by said guns. I'd stick with semi-automatic carbines for the most part, simply because stuff like bolt-actions and lever actions can be tricky to use in stressful situations and they tend to be really cumbersome due to their length. I'd stay away from magnified sights because it takes quite a lot of target practice to get those things sighted in properly, and you simply don't have that luxury in a survival situation.

    And yes, I'd generally avoid pistols as anything but a last resort weapon, like something is so close to you you can't get your primary weapon up in time and it's pretty much on top of you. If you can touch that motherfucker, a handgun might be a life saver, but ideally, they're not something you'd want to run around with as your primary means of defending yourself without a decent amount of experience. To give you an idea, I've shot pistols about 8 times in my life, and I can't manage more than general torso hits from 10 meters, while meanwhile I can shoot a rifle and hit a 4 inch steel plate at 400 meters if I have the right equipment.

    It also wouldn't be a bad idea for the group to pick up a .22LR for hunting small game. It won't be much use against say a zombie or an alien or whatever, but if you're out in the wilderness and you have a chance to plink off a small bird or a rabbit, you're hard pressed to beat a .22 in terms of the ability to carry an insane amount of light ammunition and the sound profile while shooting is extremely minimal; while it's not recommended, you can fire a .22 without risking your hearing as long as you're not doing it for long.

    But since I'm pretty free from having to play Mad Max at the gun store, I'd probably take my TAR-21 or my Vz58 over any of my other guns, or any others I'd come across.
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  17. *Sees thread title*

    *Sees question in thread*

    *Inner Texan Squeals like a baby*

    *Proceed to read the in-depth and comprehensive guides posted by others*

    *Good job team.*
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  18. I like reading your answers. It gives a different perspective :) and it makes me rethink my answrrs though I didn't go into much detail.

    First off, I agree with your roleplay pet peeves too. It drives me nuts when people think it's cool to be the sniper, or 'badass with a gun- and research nothing. Where everything they learn is from video games. Drives me nuts.

    As for when the gun jams I was imagining I would be taking fire so there wouldn't be time to unjam it. However if I were hidden and wasn't faced with immediate threat I could definitely see myself taking the time to unjam the gun and try to figure out what was making it jam in the first place.

    I agree with you about picking up a .22LR. I agree that it wouldn't do hardly any good against zombies but what's funny is that is the caliber everyone was buying up for the "zombie attacks.' I never understood it myself but seriously everyone would stock up on .22 like it was going out of business. Wed have lines out the door every week for people wait for .22. I'm over here holding some .50 rounds like... really? Lol granted I get it.. you get a lot of .22 rounds for relatively cheap and you can pack a lot of them. But if a zombie apocalypse broke out I'd be tearing those bitchest up. Not messing around with .22s. However for small game you're absolutely right.

    After reading your response you make a good point about the pistols. I've always been a handgun lover and have always preferred them. However, now thinking about I suppose they are harder for most people to shoot. Almost anyone can look through a scope and shoot something 400 yards away. Good point... good point. Although I'd probably be smart to have some kind of handgun as a last resort situation.
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  19. Ok, here's all you'll ever need to know:
    Ok, I'm done, I swear. :P
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