Suicide?

[Asmodeus]

Or we could let this die peacefully and take it to the archives when its it's time to go.

This is a free and sovereign thread. If it chooses to end itself, we must honour its wishes.

 

[Novis]

My posts were in no way intended to upset anybody. I meant to instead share my opinion in a casual, joking manner. I really do believe that this isn't a very good thread. Not the posts in it, but the potential real-life impact.

I kind of realized I was coming off as a little rude, which is why I figured I should take the time to clarify.

I wouldn't use rude, but rather childish on a serious conversation. Unfortunately, you weren't getting any opinion across. A reason to your opinion would have clarified your reasoning, and you would have gained tons of brownie points; as the reason behind your opinion was extremely valid.

Edit: I hope that made sense!

 

[Asmodeus]

*shoves Teiah*

Now now, the lady's apologized and changed her tone. No need to get preachy.



*sits on everyone while making wild throat-cutty gestures at the cameraman*

 

[Novis]

*shoves Teiah*

Now now, the lady's apologized and changed her tone. No need to get preachy.

-Sits on your lap-

Not preachy.

 

[Asmodeus]

Well....



....that just got weird.




So anyway.... SUICIDE.

 

[Ser K+]

TEAG-

So hey, this thread is 4 pages old.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

I only have to ask: How long should one be forced to suffer before they are allowed to commit this act upon themselves?

Case: A 42 year old woman has been suffering from depression and suicidal thoughts since age 13. Her entire teen and adult life has been a constant struggle with help. Medication, Therapy, counselling, more medication... One day she drives out to a farm, and injects herself with the same drug that is use to put down animals. Stolen from the Vet office where she works. She injects herself with 50cc and lays down, passes away quietly.

So I ask again, with all the so called help, how much time should one suffer before it's okay to want your constant suffering to end?

For the record: This is a true story.

Too much specific information about the situation, the pressures, cause etc is unknown.
And even if we knew all of that, no one but the woman in question would be privy to personal effect, magnitude, ability to handle it etc.

In other words: It's not the kind of thing that's a clear/cut or measurable case. And it's something that no one is privy to have full understanding of, except maybe the depressed person in question. But even then arguments can be made for stuff such as lack of awareness of a certain treatment/method etc.

People with severe depression often aren't in a right state of mind when they want to die, they're not lucid to the world around them. We should protect them

These are the majority of the cases though.
Hell this mostly eliminates suicide for any person who isn't physically ill, because any case of a person wanting to commit suicide over mental exhaustion, lack of happiness etc would be diagnoses as severe depression.

 

[unanun]

I think most of us take our normally functioning bodies for granted. If I can be rendered almost completely invalid by wisdom tooth surgery and a cut on the tongue, I can't imagine the horror when your body turns against you, especially since your conscious mind is not always in control of your body.

 

[Oblivion666]

Ive thought about it once, it was for stupid reason, such being bullied. Yet I then realized that I would effectively be destroying my mothers life if I did so. She loves me with all her heart. And with my family's shit situation, I would only make it worse. And year after year, more troubles and pains come along some of which I never wanted to experience. Yet when those dark thought run across your mind also think about your loved ones, your parents, friends, even pets will be affected. So what I'm saying is, before you think its worth it. Think about what the action would make those people feel. My mom personally told me, when she found out what i wanted to do, that it'd effectively destroy her. I'm also lucky to have thought about my sister, her life is much worse yet here she goes with a smile on her face. I may be more physically stronger but, she will always be stronger than me..... You guys making me feel emotions, now I gotta go hug my family.

 

[Ser K+]

I think most of us take our normally functioning bodies for granted. If I can be rendered almost completely invalid by wisdom tooth surgery and a cut on the tongue, I can't imagine the horror when your body turns against you, especially since your conscious mind is not always in control of your body.

Welllllllll.

The body doesn't want to hurt itself. it's all in the conscious.
There are diseases and defects, but yeah, It normally doesn't want to hurt itself.

At the most it'd probably just shut down on it's own due to self-harm.

 

[ASTA]

After looking at the first page of replies, this thread shouldn't have even made it past post number 13--let alone page 4.

 

[Novis]

o much specific information about the situation, the pressures, cause etc is unknown.
And even if we knew all of that, no one but the woman in question would be privy to personal effect, magnitude, ability to handle it etc.

In other words: It's not the kind of thing that's clear/cut or measurable case. And it something that no one is privy to full understand of, except maybe the depressed person in question. But even then arguments can be made for stuff such as lack of awareness of a certain treatment/method etc.

That was the point. It was more or less entered toward those that seem to have a very open and shut case on the subject. You just added to the why (For me) it can't be. Too many variables to make that kind of snap judgement on the right and the wrong of it. No one wants it to happen. If you think someone is, fight for them for as long as you can. And if they slip, please don't blame them, don't judge them, bash them, and call them names.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

That was the point. It was more or less entered toward those that seem to have a very open and shut case on the subject. You just added to the why (For me) it can't be. Too many variables to make that kind of snap judgement on the right and the wrong of it. No one wants it to happen. If you think someone is, fight for them for as long as you can. And if they slip, please don't blame them, don't judge them, bash them, and call them names.

I figured as much.
I just like answering questions. :3
And there was a rather big lack of answers.

 

[Brovo]

These are the majority of the cases though.
Hell this mostly eliminates suicide for any person who isn't physically ill, because any case of a person wanting to commit suicide over mental exhaustion, lack of happiness etc would be diagnoses as severe depression.

Key word: Often. Germany, The Netherlands, Québec, and Japan have legalized euthanasia. It works. It alleviates unnecessary suffering and pain before the end.

Also, unhappiness =/= severe chronic depression. People can truly hate living without being incapable of making their own decisions and continuing to exist. In the same sense that someone can feel completely apathetic to the suffering of someone else and not be psychotic, and someone can feel genocidal levels of rage without having a disorder. By sheer statistical likelihood, the majority of people who commit murder don't have a mental disorder to excuse their actions. The same is true for the suicidal.

As well, the clause is "if a therapist signs off that you're lucid, you continue as per the norm".

All this does is institute a fail-safe. It's hardly a barrier, it's just there to catch people that might need something other than "the end".

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Key word: Often. Germany, The Netherlands, Québec, and Japan have legalized euthanasia. It works. It alleviates unnecessary suffering and pain before the end.

Also, unhappiness =/= severe chronic depression. People can truly hate living without being incapable of making their own decisions and continuing to exist. In the same sense that someone can feel completely apathetic to the suffering of someone else and not be psychotic, and someone can feel genocidal levels of rage without having a disorder. By sheer statistical likelihood, the majority of people who commit murder don't have a mental disorder to excuse their actions. The same is true for the suicidal.

As well, the clause is "if a therapist signs off that you're lucid, you continue as per the norm".

All this does is institute a fail-safe. It's hardly a barrier, it's just there to catch people that might need something other than "the end".

Yea, that's true.

Forget my earlier post then.

 

[Rare]

There goes the chance of changing people's minds and hearts.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

There goes the chance of changing people's minds and hearts.

For you, or someone else?

 

[Drakel]

There goes the chance of changing people's minds and hearts.

You do know that if changed people's minds to agree with what you said, there would be A LOT more dead people in the world from suicide than there currently is, right? Sure less suicidal people would be alive but the death count would be amazingly high if everyone that wanted to commit suicide were told that the world would be better than with their "weak" existence in it.

I don't like that idea at all. Especially since many of the good people here would probably be in that death count should the world truly be like that. It's bad enough that there ARE people like that who either don't care or harm suicidals and depressees in the world to begin with.

EDIT: If you mean about you, than I'd like to say that for me, at least, it isn't. There's always enough time for the opinion of you to change if there is one to begin with. Currently though, I personally hold no opinion of you though I do highly disagree with what you stated in the thread.

 

[LogicfromLogic]

Personally, I have mixed feelings.

I have dealt with suicide more than once in my life; two friends claimed their lives and many times in my life did I try to.

On one end, I'd say yes suicide is a very selfish thing to do (anger speaking, I do have random emotions as this happened recently). Everything you do in this world will have an effect on another being, as everything is connected. If I had decided to end my life not only would have taken away the only chance of things ever getting better, but I may have poured salt into open wounds. By choosing to take my own life I have chosen a path of no redemption and no forgiveness (for my reasons, just to clarify I can't say another's choice is unforgivable. I am not the judge of others just myself, and for me I take away the only chance I have to be forgiven by those I have hurt) because in many cases it would be very unforgivable (again, this bit is about me personally, not others).

But on the other hand, how selfish would it be to keep someone from committing suicide that is in any pain that we cannot understand? If that person is so upset in their life that they feel the need to take their life, then that's what path they chose for their life. We can't sit here and tell people what is right or wrong for them, we can only show them that they will forever be loved no matter what they choose to do, and to support them while they still are around. I can't say that my friends who are no longer with me would bring me pleasure to see if they were in so much pain that they couldn't see their own future. Emotional and mental pains stay with you a whole hell of a lot longer than any physical wound does and imprints on us in terrible ways...can we really tell them that because they choose to stop the pain that they are wrong? It is their choice, as painful as that is to realize, but it is theirs. Not mine, or anybody else but themselves.

I've come to terms with suicide in itself and I no longer hold anger for it, it is personally the irresponsible thing for me personally to do. That's not to say that I want suicide to ever be an option for a friend or anyone, but if it happens, it does. Best thing you can do is show everyone what you knew of them and support others that were close to that individual. We can't police other people, just decide upon our own actions.

EDIT: Remember guys/gals/other, this is a discussion, not a debate. Opinions are great yes, but not hot headed arguments that end up with you guys strangling each other through the computer screens.

 

[Rare]

You do know that if changed people's minds to agree with what you said, there would be A LOT more dead people in the world from suicide than there currently is, right? Sure less suicidal people would be alive but the death count would be amazingly high if everyone that wanted to commit suicide were told that the world would be better than with their "weak" existence in it.

I don't like that idea at all. Especially since many of the good people here would probably be in that death count should the world truly be like that. It's bad enough that there ARE people like that who either don't care or harm suicidals and depressees in the world to begin with.

EDIT: If you mean about you, than I'd like to say that for me, at least, it isn't. There's always enough time for the opinion of you to change if there is one to begin with. Currently though, I personally hold no opinion of you though I do highly disagree with what you stated in the thread.

You think that post meant to my first post on here? No, I meant the post that I said sorry.