Suicide?

[Sidhe]

Suicide is a selfish act to commit, like stealing from your loved ones or even killing them.

Life throws the hard things at you, you're suppose to be brave and handle them. But from some, they are too weak to handle life and its' challenges. So they commit suicide.

In short:

If you're commit suicide, then you're too weak to handle life and the challenges that humans face.

EDIT: Whoa, that sounds so edgy.

Next time you want to play Edgy Teenage Troll, try Reddit instead. You'll fit in swell there.

 

[Melon]

Suicide is a selfish act to commit, like stealing from your loved ones or even killing them.

Life throws the hard things at you, you're suppose to be brave and handle them. But from some, they are too weak to handle life and its' challenges. So they commit suicide.

In short:

If you're commit suicide, then you're too weak to handle life and the challenges that humans face.

Ok, so what you're saying is, that they should be dead because they were too "weak"? That's what it comes across as. I don't know what you are trying to achieve by saying that, but it's not a good idea.

This thread is going downhill.

 

[Rare]

Not sure what you're trying to achieve there, Rare - except insulting vast tracts of humanity.

So no more thread for you.


*takes Rare's keyboard away*

I tried to give my side of this debate; but, I came off a bit too harsh (I also made myself sound like a dick).

Sorry about that, but I think that it's weak from a person to commit suicide. And before someone says, "What if one of your loved ones commits suicide?".

Depending on the reason, It would be hard; but I would have to accept what they did might of not been a selfish action. But if it was from a dumb reason, then I would still say that it was selfish of them.

Who knows, I am a sixteen year old, my views of things might change.

Again, I am sorry from being a dick to you all.

 

[Drakel]

Suicide is a selfish act to commit, like stealing from your loved ones or even killing them.

Life throws the hard things at you, you're suppose to be brave and handle them. But from some, they are too weak to handle life and its' challenges. So they commit suicide.

In short:

If you're commit suicide, then you're too weak to handle life and the challenges that humans face.

EDIT: Whoa, that sounds so edgy.

Suicide overall is a major mixture of various things and differs from person to person, and while some situations I don't agree with and might agree that it's stupid it's still a very major case and people that are suicidal really need help, a lot of it and it really doesn't have to be from a professional (even if that's preferred and the safest bet). As I said, and several others some people might be in permanent pain and want to be finally out of it or are have the disease of being suicidal/depression. Just talking to them and treating them like human beings is better than ignoring the issue or making them feel even less about themselves. As @Gwazi Magnum stated, "It's a disease" at times it isn't curable but helping them out is at least something beneficial that may make them actually want to live. And like @Jorick stated, it's not as evil or as selfish overall as what most people think, it's just something that happens and something that people need to deal with seriously.

Overall, thinking suicide overall is selfish and that all people who do it are bad and deserve it is dumb. Suicide is very situational and varies in reason between the mindset of the individual, the situations in their life, the amount of punishment from life they can mentally take before breaking, the habitat/community they live in and much, much more. As I stated in my previous post, there are infinite reasons why a person may commit suicide and a good sum of them are actually very respectable reasons, even more so if the said individual took other alternative routes that are available to them to try and get the needed help.

A good example of an individual that committed suicide for a respectable reason would be @Grumpy's post. A man in serious pain and was dying couldn't be help and in the end he made a choice to put life in his own hands instead of dealing with a pain that, I hope, no one here would EVER have to deal with in their lives.

 

[Moonlit Blade]

My two cents is, all the arguments stemming from, "It's a selfish thing," or "It makes you weak," kind of stop in their tracks once you take into account, well, why would the person who killed themselves care? They're dead.

Sure, some things can get better. And if they do, great. But, there's also a chance things can get worse. Simply put, I believe that a person has the right to choose. It's their life. Just as you do not have the right to dictate what they do or say (short of doing something illegal), you too also do not have the right to dictate when they choose to end their life.

 

[Novis]

(I also made myself sound like a dick).

Yes, yes you did.

but I think that it's weak from a person to commit suicide.

You still are.

Edit: I did come off as a bitch there. I'm sorry.

 

[govangogh]

Like I said.

 

[Ser K+]

Pardon?

 

[govangogh]

Okay, but in all seriousness, I should probably at least try to explain myself. (Get ready, kiddos. I'm gonna spill some sick truth about how everything ever makes me feel uncomfy.)

AHEM

Okay, I wanna get things straight by saying I would never, under any circumstances, imply that someone should kill themselves, or would be be better off dead. That is such an unchill thing to do, holy cow. Like, I don't like people dying??? I feel like that is something that does not need to be said. Alternatively, I would never tell anyone that suicide is cowardly, or weak, or selfish, or any of those other negative things that people say to shift blame onto a victim. If someone kills themself, are you going to stand around and talk about how it was such a selfish thing to do, and how things would've gotten better, what were they thinking? Hopefully not! That would make you a not so good person. How on Earth would you know if the suicide was justified? They clearly thought it was. Too bad we can't ask them why, because they're dead. It's not brave, or weak, or anything in between. It's just sad. Focus less on trying to justify and/or demonize a person who commits suicide, and more on creating easier access to resources for people struggling with suicide, and on erasing the negative social stigma that surrounds mental illness and asking for help.

Even throwing a fit over people attempting suicide for "attention" is not cool, because they clearly need it! People need to be shown love, and they need to have a support system.

It's not our place to debate whether or not suicide is "okay". Instead you should work on being caring and accommodating to those closest to you. Make sure your loved ones feel like it's okay to get help when they need it.
(Of course, physician assisted suicide is a whole other can of worms, and also not what I think this thread is about.)

People who pass off suicide as unjustified and those who pass it off as justified both make me feel like I have maggots in my stomach. The people who say the world is better off with some people dead make it even worse. I kinda feel like that most sides of this debate are pretty awful.

Anyways, I think that this thread is a bad idea because there is a lot of "well, it may be worth it" and "depending on the situation" and there are people reading this thread who are suicidal! And that is not a good mindset to put them in.


For those of them who could use them, here are some suicide hotlines by country, as well as some chat based crisis hotlines here and here.
Of course, if you just need someone to talk to who is willing to listen, you can always hunt me down.

 

[Hana]

More than one soul dies in suicide.

Think about that. Yes, I think suicide is a selfish answer to a temporary problem, but I've contemplated it a few times. Then I remember something that seemed innocuous at first, like my best friend calling and saying she can't wait to go out with me in the weekend, or that my brother is still waiting for the cookies I promised him. And then I'd be left wondering, 'what would they feel?' They would never expect something like that, and they were waiting for me too. And I feel somewhat ashamed because I'm trying to get away from my problems when some people have had it worse and come out on top. Though suicide is still ultimately someone's choice, they have their own reasons (which could be right or wrong from different points of view, yes?).

Um, this quote is relevant. I think.

"If you throw someone a life preserver, and they turn around and swim away from it; what can you do but let them drown themselves?"
-Tracy Phaup

 

[ASTA]

I'm of the mind that no one should be scorned for contemplating--or even enacting--suicide.

In my opinion, people who proclaim that suicide 'victims' are somehow 'selfish' come off as insensitive individuals who have a flawed comprehension of reality. People don't exist for your mere pleasure or comfort. No one asked to sign up for life on planet Earth. If you seriously think this, you're the one that's being selfish, not the person that decided to check themselves out early.

At the end of the day? Their meatsuit, their rules.

 

[Skyswimsky]

10 minutes ago I thought deciding for suicide is weak willed, but to go through with it actually requires a strong will, so yeah. Apart from that I believe everyone has right over their own live, with the exception of being in debt. Or wife/husband and children, who rely way more on you than siblings, friends or parents.

 

[SlamifiedBuddafied]

Self mutilation is an amusing past-time. Why end it all when you can continue perpetuating your own suffering for years to come?

But on a serious note. Suicide. I cannot call it selfish, as those who do not find themselves in such a situation will never have the slightest inkling of the state of mind one finds themselves in when actually reaching the point of suicide. If anything I'd call suicide absurd or borderline divine comedy. It's but another act committed by humans which so far, as observation seems to dictate, is only committed by humans. But I suppose the only issue I have with suicide is the lack therefore of empathy which comes from the "afflicted" parties left to continue on with but a memory. That is where I find a dangerous line when the words selfish or morality come into play.

Now I've been told I've attempted suicide, but I've not memory of this so I cannot say much on that. Though I've witnessed a suicide quite up close and I can say one thing for sure. It IS a way out, but of course as it's been stated by others, it's a solution to a temp problem. Though in the truly sick, those who minds are so frayed from whatever ordeal. In all the cases I've heard about I can only question just how hard those around the suicide victim tried to reach out and save them. I do believe some people are lost causes and it's an inevitable outcome which will happen no matter what due to key variables which perpetuated that persons downhill slide into such a state of misery that ending it was the only viable option. But of course there is always information not given, by both the victim and affected parties.

So when it comes down to it, it is what it is. Just another tragedy which receives attention in all the wrong ways.

 

[Novis]

there are people reading this thread who are suicidal!

Rather than trolling, this should have been your statement from your very first post.

 

[Brovo]

Suicide. Hm. Touchy topic.

In the case of euthanasia, I am fully in support of it. Especially if it's because of a terminal illness that kills slowly and painfully, or due to old age making one decrepit and feeble. If you can no longer physically live life without assistance and you hate this, you should be fully allowed to take a ticket out. This also goes for those suffering extreme physical handicaps at birth: Once they're old enough to decide they want to drink, fuck, and vote, they should also be allowed to decide that they can't live the way they do, and take the ticket out.

"Suicide is unethical!" According to the standards of who? You? Why do your standards trump someone else's standards? If your answer is by virtue of faith, you're not mentally equipped to have a discussion about the consequences of physical actions and the finality of death.

"Because suicide hurts everyone!" Your point is? My girlfriend breaking up with me hurt me immensely, and it hurt her too, and it hurt some of our friends who saw us both in pain. She didn't want to do it, but she knew things weren't working out, so she had to. Does that mean she shouldn't break up because it hurts more than just herself? What kind of nonsense logic is that? Your emotions are completely irrelevant in this. The only person who matters is the one making the decision to opt out of life: Yes, or no.

"Because what if they live life to the fullest?!" Again putting aside all questions of faith? They continue to use Earth's resources, continue to feel poorly, purchase a firearm, and blow their own brains out. People that sincerely want to kill themselves aren't exactly going to be stopped unless they're massively physically handicapped. On top of this, they either choose when to die, or life makes that decision for them with a disease, old age, unfortunate accident, or otherwise: Either way they will die. One decision just means they die sooner, on their own terms, in their own way.

"Because it's cowardly!" Really now? You think it's cowardly to end your own existence with the absolute uncertainty of whether or not there's anything on the other side of death's doorway? Go ahead and try it. I guarantee you won't be able to do it, the instinctive compulsion to survive is incredible powerful and to overcome that is anything but cowardly. Also, seriously? This is your argument to try and encourage someone away from suicide, is to call them cowardly? Smart move. I'm sure emotionally berating them is going to make them feel better.

"Suicide is selfish!" So is drinking and smoking, and both of those activities are legal ways to slowly murder your innards as you become addicted to them. "Those don't kill!" No, they turn people into abusive wife beaters, or cancer patients. Amazing. Besides that, who gives a shit if it's selfish? We all do incredible selfish things. I love playing video games, by myself. That's pretty selfish if you think about it, I'm intentionally shunning people away to be alone. I desire as much currency as I can get my hands on, that's also inherently selfish, yet we made an entire economic system around selfishness.

---

This all being said, I think provisions do need to be in place with suicide. First of all, people who want to end themselves should first see a therapist to talk things over. If they're still determined, schedule them for euthanasia in a month. If at any point they feel uncertain, allow them to cancel said appointment. If they're completely certain for that entire month, after seeing a therapist, that this is what they want to do... Let them go. You aren't saving anyone by preventing their suicide, you're torturing them by telling them that your emotional needs are greater than theirs. There should also be a couple other provisions, such as...

1. People with children should not be allowed the right to suicide, those children need to be raised and cared for. This is actually a valid argument against suicide: The children need you. Wait until they're capable of living on their own, or at least find someone else who can raise them like an uncle or something. Then you can make that decision after legal waivers have been signed.
2. People suffering from mental disorders of any kind shouldn't be allowed the right to suicide unless a therapist signs off that they're mentally capable of making the decision. People with severe depression often aren't in a right state of mind when they want to die, they're not lucid to the world around them. We should protect them.
3. Suicide call lines and other support services that try to stop suicides should still be in full operation. Give people on the edge a chance to reconsider: This is good, this saves lives.

Beyond that? Who the hell are you to tell these people whether or not they're allowed to live or die? Are you God? The flying spaghetti monster? No? Didn't think so. This is not a decision you and I get to make. We can try to convince them out of it, and that's it. Forcing them to live against their will is insane if they're sincerely determined to go through with it. As for those that aren't, a series of safeguards can easily weed them out.

So there you go. A nice, logical way to look at it.

"Every human life is special because we have souls!" If there is a god, and he has some kind of plan, that included giving this person suicidal tendencies. Let them go according to god's plan. Unless you want to imply that god was wrong...

 

[Ser K+]

Unless you want to imply that god was wrong...

Oh you.

 

[Diana]

Yes, lets remember this is not a debate but thread to let people share their opinions. :D No bickering!

On that note, Jorick and Fauna said all of my opinions on the subject and they did so beautifully. o__o


But I will also say that I have attempted suicide before and even now when I get really bad, I think about suicide. I have known people both acquaintances and close to me that have committed suicide, one was even recent in the past three years.

I still feel like suicide is a selfish asshole thing to do, but I also feel people have the right to make that choice themselves and there are plenty of cases where it's probably the right thing to do for someone's life. When my friends talk about suicide, my first instinct and usual reaction is to get mad, yell at them and try to convince them there are better ways to handle their problems because I know they CAN. I haven't met someone yet that I agreed with about being suicidal, but I imagine if I ever met someone who was truly suffering that much and there really was no hope for their life, I would at least try not to yell at them and be more supportive.

Whether or not that actually happens, I dunno. >> I am fine with admitting that I am selfish and I don't want someone taken away from me if I can help it.

 

[Asmodeus]

*kicks back on the veranda, sipping ice tea and watching Rare's keyboard run around with the other farm animals*


So we're all agreed? Suicide is complicated and differs from case to case, so it's best not to make assumptions? Yes?

Good?

Close thread?



Okay!

 

[Ser K+]

Or we could let this die peacefully and take it to the archives when its it's time to go.

 

[govangogh]

Rather than trolling, this should have been your statement from your very first post.

My posts were in no way intended to upset anybody. I meant to instead share my opinion in a casual, joking manner. I really do believe that this isn't a very good thread. Not the posts in it, but the potential real-life impact.

I kind of realized I was coming off as a little rude, which is why I figured I should take the time to clarify.