Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Asinis, Jan 31, 2015.

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  1. WAIT! I'm not currently contemplating withdrawing my application, I would just like to hear you different views on the people that choose to end it all. Do you think it's ok? Religious and non-religious people are both welcome to comment. I personally am not that religious, I dont believe in a christian god and never will. I definitely do not believe in hell.
  2. I think that suicide is selfish, and cruel. Yes, life is a bitch, I'll be the first to admit it. There have been times when I would have loved to have given up and simply put an end to things. But the bad stuff isn't permanent. It is up to the person to find what makes their life worth living, and everyone has at least one thing to live for. If they claim that they don't, they're copping out.
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  3. I actually have attempted to commit suicide before. After getting very sick from overdose, I learned that it is NOT the way out. Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem. You don't have to be religious to think suicide is wrong. In fact, I don't really know anyone that thinks it is a good idea. You yourself may "escape" the pain, but think about the effect it would have on everyone else.
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  4. Wanted to. Found a wussy painless means of doing so. Thought about my family and friends. Realized that offing myself would be a show of weakness, making me less manly (Which I seemed to care about alot at the time). Didn't. Coped. Made up something so complex that I wouldn't want it to be wasted with my death. Coped some more. Played video games. Read dark humor. Slandered politics. Looked at pictures of cute miniature pigs. That helped me enjoy life.
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  5. If someone wants to commit suicide, they're welcome to do it. I won't stop them, so long as they know that they're just making more problems, and not solving anything.

    In my opinion, killing yourself is just a waste of a perfectly good person and turning down everything that could have been. No more, no less.
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  6. I foresee great things for this thread.

    I'm pro-choice.
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  7. Suicide is most definitely selfish. However, it's not so black and white that you can say that automatically means such a decision is wrong or evil. You have to ask yourself if it's reasonable to ask of a person to live in or with a certain condition. You have to ask yourself if a person was in a state of rational thought and capability to consider the weight of their decision. What is reasonable to expect from which person in which condition? What about euthanasia? Etcetera.

    While I'd hardly ever encourage someone to take their own life, I find myself judging looking at this on a case by case scenario.

    EDIT: Refer to @Fauna and @Jorick's post for the subject of selfishness. They expressed the matter in a way I should have.
    #7 Kestrel, Jan 31, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2015
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  8. I've personally tried once, i wont say how but i go through stages of serious contemplation. I've seen a few arguments of selfishness, but does selfishness come into when you've actually pulled the plug? Why should it matter to you once you're actually dead? Is it not also selfish of people to actually want you to stay alive? Should there be a punishment waiting for you if you opt out?
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  9. Well, it is sort of selfish. And a permanent solution for temporary problems. And it's just a very sad and horrible thing to do, wasting your life like that. Basically what everybody else said.

    I've been there so I'd know what it's like (wouldn't recommend it), so I can relate to people who are suicidal. For whatever reason somebody would want to off themselves, there is always a solution, aside from killing oneself. I didn't find a solution, as much as I was too much of a wuss to try it. I don't deal with pain well and in the end my self-preservation basically kicked me in the balls and told me to back the fuck off. So I carried on like usual, got help, and voila, here I am five years later.

    But really, it's a terrible way to take, because it leaves so many after effects. Family, friends, coworkers, classmates, relatives, there are always people who will be devastated. Even if everything is shit and there is no obvious way out of it, given time and a bit of fighter's spirit, it'll get better.

    And my knowledge of the English language is nonexistent at the moment. Sorry guys.
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  10. I'm rather open minded about it. If it happens than it happens. I am religious though in all honesty I do think that even god would be okay with certain situations of suicide. Here's a list of some suicide situations and a simplified view on them.

    • If you're doing it (or pretending to) for attention:: You're a selfish, self centered asshole who really doesn't deserve the life they have (Saw anyone?).
    • If you're doing it because of a small temporary (Temporary "depression") problem. like getting dumped by your "true love":: Life's a bitch, get over it and if it's THAT BAD, talk to someone about it, but live your life.
    • If you're doing it because of major problems (full body 3rd degree burn):: I can never imagine that type of pain and I know you're being treated less than human for that pain. A curse I could never imagine being in. Still though talk to someone, anyone about it instead of thinking of a permanent solution. I know there're people out there who do care about you so think about them before doing anything irrational, though I can't judge if you do commit it since I could never understand that type of pain.
    • In the military and being captured and/or tortured for information (should such a situation ever occur)::I view it like the Romans do, if you're captured and being tortured for information I'm more than cool for suicide as a solution since it's not only helping yourself but many others as well. Better you suicide to save others than to live and give information that'll lead a lot of harm to others.
    • Self sacrifice to help save others:: I'm cool with this too.
    • Bushido's Suppuku(Religious reasons)::You following YOUR religious beliefs, I can at least respect this even if I don't agree with it.
    • Depression/Suicidal (The mental disorders):: I understand this a lot though there is a better way. There is a life to live and you must be strong and pull through, you're not alone and there are people that care for you. I know how this feels and understand the want but still think of others around you. It's selfish, I know and the desire is strong, I understand but still live through it, you won't regret it.
    And that's basically it with my thoughts on the subject. It's a rather grey area where there are a lot of situations that will determine if I'm "Okay" with it or not. No matter what it is sad and hurts a lot of people but overall it isn't as evil or as bad as most people make it imo. It just is what it is. A person dying by their own hands by a choice they themselves made given the situation they're given. Overall I say "Pull through and try to live your life, it'll get better soon."
    #10 Drakel, Jan 31, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
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  11. I... should not have read this thread. Curiosity can go die in a hole.

    Should not have read this thread.
  12. I am going to offer another voice here, potentially against my better judgement.

    I have spent half of my life being suicidal. I have attempted suicide twice and contemplated it many more times than I could count. I suffer from several mental illnesses, the most prominent and miserable of which is chronic, debilitating depression. I could write pages on my feelings about the disease, and how it is quite possibly the worst named disease of all, but that's not really the point of this thread. My disease wants me to die. It is a very clever, manipulative, intelligent disease. It's ultimate goal is to kill you. That is one of the first things I want people to understand about my particular form of depression. It is not just a temporary sadness. It will be with me for my entire life. I am also not the only one with this disease - there are many of us, yet when people here the word 'depression,' they think of emotional teenagers under some modicum of stress who want some attention. There are many different forms of this disease, yet so many people view it as one thing, and not a serious thing.

    "A permanent solution to a temporary problem"... what I feel like some people need to understand is that the problem is not always temporary. Like I said, I will be suffering from depression for my entire life. It will not go away. It is not curable. Treatable? Yes, absolutely, but not curable. For those with extremely serious forms of depression, treatment isn't always plausible, either... especially in a world where mental illness is so stigmatized, and treatments are not wildly available. The treatments that we do have are largely a guessing game; there is no exact science to it. You can't say, 'take these few pills, come have this exact treatment for x number of days and then you'll be better.' That's not how it works.

    It's taken me 12 years to find a treatment that works for me, and I'm one of the lucky ones. It is still an every day struggle. I no longer live every day wishing for the sweet mercy of death, and I am so thankful for that. People tell me that I am strong, that I am so strong for having come this far, for sticking it out, for surviving, and I suppose that that is true... but when I think about others who have suffered the way I have - or have suffered in other, more horrific ways - who weren't so lucky to make it this far, I just can't find it in me to curse them for it. In the end, their disease took their life, and it is tragic.

    Not everyone who commits suicide it suffering from chronic depression like me, of course. There are a multitude of other reasons for killing yourself, but none of them should be taken lightly. No one commits suicide 'for attention.' No one in their right mind commits suicide, period. When people call the act of suicide selfish, I want to tell them one thing: on the mind of almost every suicidal person is that by removing themselves from this earth, they are doing the rest of the world a favor. They seem themselves as a burden. By killing themselves, they are not only freeing themselves of this horrible pain, but freeing everyone else from it as well.

    Should that make sense to you? If you've never been in that position - no, probably not. I surely wish that most people have not felt that way, because it's a horrible way to feel. I recognize that there are some people that commit suicide out of spite, but those are few and far between. Mostly these are people who are suffering, often from invisible illnesses that no one else seems to understand. With a world of people who tell you just to 'get over it,' that 'others have it worse,' that it's 'all in your head,' it can be incredibly hard to keep living. You hurt so much... you just want relief.

    In closing, I want to ask you one thing:
    If suicide is selfish, isn't it also selfish to expect someone suffering so deeply to continue living just so you don't have to feel the pain of their passing? We are all selfish. It's in our nature.
    #12 Opal, Jan 31, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2015
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  13. ????

    This thread needs to be slam dunked into the trash bin.

  14. I am just gonna quote this for impact and leave a +1 here.
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  15. Suicide is selfish in its own right (and I agree with Fauna on that last part), but calling someone a coward for doing so is an equally deplorable thing. An optimistic outlook on life is but one of many, and not a single one of them is the necessarily correct way of viewing things. Simply because optimism is the most 'happy' or 'feel good' outlook, doesn't mean it's logical or accurate. The world isn't built on certainties through feelings. The world isn't a Disney setting. That's what gets a lot of suicides to transpire, is what I think.
  16. It's generally not a fantastic idea, but I hate it when people call suicide selfish as if that's saying something worthwhile. It's no more selfish than expecting others to remain alive just to keep you happy. The selfishness involved in someone living or dying is not a one way street. Those who say "but omg no you can't die you'll make me sad" are just as selfish as the those who say "but omg no I can die if I want your feelings don't matter." One side is saying "my feelings matter more than yours," the other side is saying "my feelings matter more than yours." Oh wow, would you look at that? Now please, everyone stop calling suicide selfish, it's a nonsensical comment.

    That said, judging suicide is kind of awkward because we can only do it from an observer perspective. The problem with trying to judge suicide is that there is some plausible level of pain and suffering at which suicide becomes a reasonable option. There exists a level of pain and suffering so extreme that it makes it impossible to live anything like a normal or worthwhile life, and so it seems a better choice to just end it all instead of living through it. Many places around the world have recognized this fact as it pertains to terminal illnesses, and so they have legalized assisted suicide so those who have a terminal illness and don't wish to continue with or experience that level of agony can opt out of it. The reason this is an issue as it pertains to suicide in people who aren't terminally ill is that pain and suffering are personal, subjective experiences. The pain you experience from a kick in the shin is not identical to what someone else feels when kicked in the shin. The suffering you experience from depression is not identical to the suffering someone else feels when depressed. It is literally impossible to accurately judge what another person is feeling (even measuring the chemical activity in their brain isn't enough because people react differently to differing levels of these mood altering chemicals), so trying to say "that was stupid, they committed suicide over a trivial thing" is rather asinine.

    The only circumstances of suicide which I'd say are reasonable to call stupid or bad or whatever are instances where people don't seek out any professional help at all before killing themselves. The reason that is stupid is not because they're committing suicide, but because they didn't explore their options before making a permanent choice. That's it. That's the only justifiable reason to negatively judge someone who commits suicide. Trying to judge for any other reason is either profound ignorance or profound arrogance: either you're so ignorant that you're totally unaware of what selfishness really is or how subjective emotions really are, or you're so arrogant that you think you can really judge exactly what a person was feeling and going through before they did the deed. You're not omniscient, so you're not qualified to judge others in this matter. End of story.
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  17. I don't say that suicide is selfish because of the people that are affected by it. I'm saying that suicide is selfish because there is always someone out there suffering more than you are. Out in the world there is someone who has hit rock bottom and feels they have nothing to live for. Yet they push on, they continue to live hoping to find something that gives their life meaning. That is the selfishness behind suicide, because it's the truth. You're problems are the worst for you, not the worst that could possibly ever happen to anyone. It's selfish to think that what's going on in your life, no matter how bad gives you the right to decide that is the worst possible thing anyone can experience and believe that it's a valid excuse to end your life. It's not. There are people out there in the world who suffer from problems that others could not even begin to comprehend, let alone survive.

    We live in a world where the horrors of humanity are displayed for everyone. You see suicide bombers killing innocent people. Children witnessing their parents being murdered, mothers watching their daughters being raped, and people want to commit suicide because of what? People who are suicidal can get help. There are hotlines, clinics, even websites offering to help people who are suicidal. All they have to do is pick up a phone, get on their computer and there's someone there willing to lend an ear. The fact that they choose not to get help, that they believe their life is the worst when there are countless others out there who are suffering a hundred times worse than they are, that is selfish, and if you can't see that then you're blind.
  18. Isn't this an abortion debate? Arguing over the rightness/wrongness/stupidness of an act, when really it should be the individual's choice and if you don't like that choice just don't choose it for yourself?

    What if killing yourself relieves your family of the financial burden of looking after you? Or the heartache of watching you decay before their eyes? Is that selfish?
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  19. Just because there are people out there that may have it worse off than you do does not make the pain you are suffering any less real or, as is often the case, unbearable. There is always someone out there that has it better than you do, too, but no one focuses on that (rightfully), or lets it prevent them from feeling good about themselves. I can also guarantee you that there are people living in absolutely atrocious conditions, those whose suffering you are using as a point of contention, who have considered, and surely succeeded in, suicide. Suicide is not just a 'first world' problem by any means.

    You can't belittle someone's suffering just because someone else has it worse, especially if you yourself have not experienced that kind of suffering. Depression and mental illness are real, serious, painful disorders that bring real, serious, painful suffering with them. It's not something trivial like, 'oh, I stubbed my toe. I should kill myself now.' You also say that these people can 'get help' like it's that easy. I mentioned this in my other post, but treatment and assistance for the mentally ill are not easy by any means. In my particular province, you could be waiting for years until you get help, unless you can fork over thousands of dollars, which many people can't.

    You make it sound like you think all of those who consider or commit suicide are doing so for supremely trivial reasons, when that's simply not the case.
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  20. Agreed. Too much shit is caused in the world because one person assumes they are suffering more than others.

    The culture of "You don't know me - you don't know what I've been through."

    The culture of "I've seen shit."

    The culture of "I can say or do this because I've earned the right."

    All it does is divide people, and make them wear their damage like fashion accessories. People compete with their pain, rather than healing it.
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