SteamBox Appeal

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Shadow, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. First off, I'm not rebelling just to rebel, I'm not trying to start a flame war. Also, I'm not going to try to say that all of my following points are right. I've been wrong before, it happens. Rarely, but it happens. But I can and will speak firmly based on my observations and experiences, although I can't pretend to know the perspectives of others.

    Now, the message that is displayed when attempting to enter the SteamBox states that it uses been used for escaping a crowded cbox or from newbies. In all fairness, it shouldn't be held against a user if he or she wants to hang out in the calmer, more playful environment of the SteamBox if the cbox is excessively active. Also, to my knowledge, there is nothing stopping n00bs (except possibly age barriers) from entering the SteamBox, thus making it irrational for someone to flee to it when the FNG he/she "fled from" could follow too. Plus, I have not seen any disruption caused by or any mention of either of these claims when people have entered the box.

    Next, it mentions that the box has reportedly been used as a clique group. I have been frequenting the box for the first time in couple of months since about a week ago. A clique implied that the behavior is exclusive, greeting some while shunning others and making them feel unwelcome. However, when I first entered, I was welcomed with open arms in most cases (I seem to recall that there may have been a tackle or two involved), and was treated just like every other member in the chat. I have seen no occasion in which someone has been excluded or in which it has been implied that someone wasn't welcome in the chat. What I HAVE seen is a friendly, open group of roleplayers kicking back and having fun.

    Furthermore, it states that the themes are too strictly enforced. This could either be due to administration being anal about something we see as being casual, or it could be that people are going too far with something that's stated in the rules. To be honest, I both understand this and can't say much on the topic. I was scolded by a staff member for roleplaying in the SteamBox, which, I'll admit, is discouraged in the chat etiquette. However, I've also seen staff members roleplay in the same box, right along with the rest of the users. I'm not going to name any names, you'll never take me alive. That being said, it doesn't seem to particularly upset anyone, so I ask this; where is the harm when the mass populace is in on the fun?

    Finally, it states that people no longer find it comfortable to hang out in, that nobody is enjoying it, nor has anyone enjoyed it for a while... Frankly, I laugh at this. Even on the slower, calmer days, I've enjoyed myself. And it has been rather apparent that the other users have as well. With all due respect, I suggest actually taking a look first hand before taking complaints to mean that nobody is enjoying something. It has been a happy atmosphere every time I've been in there.

    My request is simple. Even if you still refuse, despite all of this, to give us back the SteamBox, because it still seems fair to have a chat box for 18+ simply for mature, risqué or not, conversations, then at least replace the link with links to the Inn and Bordello. And if not those, then at the VERY least, PLEASE fix the mother f@$&ing message interface for mobile. Because as it stands, you're forcing us to settle for an option, that isn't an option right now for those of us without computers. And on top of that, it makes non-thread communication extremely difficult.
     
    #1 Shadow, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  2. Well, I'm somewhat new to the site and not exactly a very frequent user of the chats, but I can say in my experience with the Steambox that I have seen evidence of most of those problems described in the reason for its removal. I'm gonna throw in my two cents on each bit, just because I feel like it.

    I have seen tons of people hanging out there just because the general chat is crowded or certain people they don't like were present there. Most of the time it seemed there was actually no difference between General and Steambox because they were both just smatterings of random non-mature nonsense, and in those times the Steambox is sort of redundant.

    I've seen some clique stuff happening, with individuals excluding others and acting superior to them because they were regulars in the Steambox, though only from a few people. Not gonna name names because that would be rude. For the most part people in the Steambox were fairly open and welcoming from what I saw. I've spent a lot more time in Cbox General and haven't seen any clique action at all though, so to me that seems mildly indicative of a problem with the Steambox.

    The themes being too strictly enforced was a real problem, though it was not a 100% of the time thing. As I said above, sometimes it was just Cbox General 2.0, which is totally not on theme. Other times certain nameless figures (stemming from one in particular with others just following their lead from what I saw) would hardcore enforce the "18+ stuff only" theme. People not talking about sexual things were told to stop breaking the chat rules, which killed the general silly shenanigans vibe the place usually had and kind of murdered the activity level as well. Either way you want to look at it, I feel like this means the Steambox wasn't serving a good purpose: either the theme enforcement shouldn't have happened and Steambox was really General 2.0 and totally redundant, or tons of people were breaking the rules and not staying on the 18+ content only theme so Steambox doesn't need to exist because those people should just head on over to Cbox General and keep doing what they were doing. Furthermore, whenever there wasn't a mod around the place (and a couple times I saw it happen with a mod present) it seemed to devolve into like half roleplaying through emotes, which is another function other chat rooms were meant for. Nobody wanted to stick to the 18+ content theme all the time, so Steambox was really a melding of General and the Roleplaying chats. Probably better to just kill that chat and tell people to take the activity to the chats where it belongs, no?

    The only thing I can't say I saw any real evidence of was the lack of comfort and nobody wanting to hang out there anymore. It did have a fair level of activity, so I dunno where this comes from. I imagine the staff probably received a lot of complaints, thus those statements made, but that's just conjecture. Even discounting that part of the reasoning, I think they had plenty of justification for axing the Steambox.

    As for your specific requests, I'm just another random user so I've got little of value to add there. I would suggest making a separate thread about whatever message interface issues you're talking about though. They can't exactly fix problems based on a general statement of "it's fucked up, fix it."
     
    • Thank Thank x 2
  3. You don't seem to understand why the Steambox was closed so as one of the ones who made the decision to close it I'll put this as simply as possible. Closing it was far from our first choice, if there was another solution we would have taken it. Right now we are reviewing the need and role for a 18+ chat bot and there is a good chance it will be put back when we have a clearer understanding about what what will and will not be discouraged in it.

    Here is why:

    When it came to what should be allowed in the box the regulars were split into two extremes. One group wanted a mature content only bot where more tame discussions would be moved to other boxes leaving the steambox free to the steamy stuff.

    The other extreme wanted a second cbox that was less busy where they could stay away from members they didn't want to interact with.

    After months of trying to reconcile these two groups and listening to complaints some of the mods involved asked to be removed from steambox duty because no matter who they tried to listen to no one was happy. This was when the administrators took a long look at all the reports, logs, etc and it became clear that a simple rule change, policy update, or notice wasn't going to fix this so we made the choice to close the steambox.

    Appealing won't change our minds, so let me tell you what will:

    A community that has proven if can play nicely in the boxes it has left, that can be as welcoming, friendly, mindful, and gracious as you claim. If we see that we may add in another box or restructure the system entirely, depending on what the needs are then.

    Prove us wrong. We want you to but in the right way, by example.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Love Love x 1
    • Thank Thank x 1
  4. Vay, that was so well said and concise. Are you a U.S. citizen (I know you live in Thailand)? We could seriously use some of your diplomatic sense in Washington.

    Vay for President 2016
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • You Get a Cookie You Get a Cookie x 1
  5. Jorick has given the perfect example perspective of the people we have received complaints from. And Vay very neatly explained why we chose to close the box over other choices!

    You have to understand not everyone had a problem in there, but there were ENOUGH reported problems, that something had to be done.

    WITHOUT strict moderation, members were not using the box for it's intended purpose which was very frustrating for staff who have to maintain it and members who do want to use it for it's topic.

    WITH strict moderation, members start to feel like they can't have organic conversations, bullied, uncomfortable, and fearful to interact with each other. Which is not something we want happening on Iwaku.

    Thus, the best thing to do was close the Steambox so we can add something better back later!


    Also, the Bordello and Inn still exist! They are roleplay rooms and listed in the Chat Roleplay section!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Thank Thank x 1
  6. I have had numerous discussions with other cbox users about this, especially at length with @Myrnodyn.

    This post might step on some toes. Let me preface by saying I don't mean to offend anyone, but I'm going to call it like I see it.

    Without disclosing names of people who were discriminated against or of people who were doing the discriminating, I will be the first to openly admit that Steambox was indeed very cliquey. For several people it was not just an escape from the crowded cbox, it was an escape from the users in the cbox.

    I have no problem with the Steambox being used for its original purpose, which is to discuss 18+ subject matter away from minors. I understand this and I respect it. But when the Steambox is not used for that purpose, essentially it's just an "exclusive" chatbox where the barrier to entry is being 18 years or older. Historically, it became the outlet in order to avoid certain people in the regular chatbox, either because the users they wanted to avoid didn't know about Steambox, or because they weren't able to access it.

    I am always reminded of this fact whenever a user whom people were trying to avoid eventually (inevitably) found their way into Steambox. I'd get Skypes talking about the "Steambox regulars," the "Steambox crew," about how he/she missed the "old-school cbox crew." (Because a lot of the people in Steambox were previously cbox regulars who moved over)

    This is essentially akin to saying, I don't like this new person and want to exclude them; if I could continue to chat with everyone I like, outside the presence of this new unsavory person, I would.

    That kind of mentality is immature. It is childish and selfish. Shame on me for having felt that way once, and shame on everyone else who still does.

    What kind of example are we setting for other, younger users? As the frequenters of an adult chatbox, shouldn't we, as adults, be more mature than that? Aren't we better than that? We should be accepting the members, integrating them, helping them feel like a part of the community, rather than looking to exclude them.

    It is toxic to a community, in my opinion, to allow negative opinions about other members to foster and propagate this way, where people aren't mature enough to be direct with a person and tell them they're being awkward or inappropriate, and would rather skitter off to a separate chatbox with the illusion of exclusivity, just to avoid that person and sometimes even talk about that person behind his/her back.

    My opinion is that if the Steambox is brought back, it should be heavily moderated specifically for mature content. Once the mature discussion is over, people need to go back to the regular cbox or be moved there. None of this clique bullshit - because that's what it is. It's bullshit.

    I've somehow developed a reputation as being abrasive (ask @Taleweaver lol), which definitely isn't one of the ways I describe myself, but I am not afraid to be straight with someone and let them know I think they're being weird, awkward, inappropriate or socially inconsiderate, and that it's making me or others uncomfortable. So please. Steambox users, live up to the adult nature of the Steambox and be adults, not children.
     
    • Thank Thank x 4
    • Love Love x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. @Jorick As I said, I was speaking from my observations alone, I can't particularly speak for others. Also, I did make a separate thread on it. Right after the update.

    @Vay It seem as if the SteamBox's two sides were literally night and day. I am primarily nocturnal, and thus was mostly online at night. It seems like there is a strong possibility that many of the problems in question had arisen during the time that I wasn't around to see anything.

    @WarriorHeart Well said. Our country's current "administration" needs to remove their head from their proverbial ass.

    @Diana Tribs pointed out that the Inn and Bordello are still around, hence the reason I edited it to "replace the link with those two." Easier access.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. @Jorick hit the nail on the head.

    Vay and Diana both gave you the answers you were looking for pretty well already, so really I only have a few things to say here.


    @fatalrendezvous

    Good on you. I mean it. Thank you for saying this and you have my utmost respect for it.

    @Shadow

    The Bordello and Bordello Inn are ROLEPLAY chats and should be grouped with the other roleplay chatboxes. Linking them with the general chats would just cause confusion.
     
    • Thank Thank x 2
  9. I'm on mobile, Ozzie. The overlap and misalignment creates confusion as is. The gist of what I'm trying to ask for is, could you give us easier access to them? Like where they were before, in the description of the SteamBox.
     
  10. @Shadow

    On mobile, from the main menu simply scroll down to Chat Roleplaying (which is in the Roleplaying section) and click on it. There will be a list of the roleplay chats at the top which include the Bordello and the Inn.
     
  11. Yup, it's all good, I was just giving my observations as well.

    I didn't see that you'd made a thread, else I wouldn't have said anything about it. :P
     
  12. I've noticed that there are a few things that worked well with the Sneak Peek but didn't work after the update; alignment is one of them. Another is that everything seems a little laggier now than it did.
     
  13. Like I said it was a over an extended period and various rules adjustments and moderating tactics were tried. It probably wasn't obvious to everyone but it was to enough people that no matter what we tried someone was always unhappy.
     
  14. Ah, but is that not the way of the world? That which appeases one person will always infuriate another; you can't please everyone. But, I understand what you mean.