Sociological Patterns

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Zorilla, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. So this actually is an interesting question or at least I feel it’s an interesting question.

    When you have a person you are at ‘ends’ with – someone who in the past has rend you so deeply you feel you can never heal – and this person and you are in the same room or chatroom and they speak to you civilly. Do you think they are wrong for that? Should they get the ‘hint’ that you want nothing to do with them and leave you be. Do you feel that civil interactions with an ‘enemy’ is something to be avoided? Do you feel as if you can coexist even in an environment so ‘temporary’ as the internet? Talk to me Iwaku what are your thoughts?
  2. You needa take care of you. Fuck that other person. If you wanna try'n be civil back to them then try but never at the expense of your emotional well-being and stability. You feel yourself crackin' and breakin' on the inside the more you talk like ain't shit happened between you then get yourself out. Fuck their ugly tears and caught feelings when you bow out, their balled up tissues aren't worth the gashes and rips reopening inside you.

    If you feel like you gotta ice them out... then ice them the fuck out. Peace off on whatever guilt you feel bubbling up inside you because of it, you don't owe any hurtful asshole your feelings, mental energy or time.

    EDIT: Folk also need to get the fuck off that train of thought, talkin' about how you're bein' the better or higher minded person for talkin' to people you had a falling out with. Fuck that stupid shit type of noise. You're not provin' shit by sticking your hand back into a bubbling pot of acid and smiling and it ain't whittling you down to your blood and bones. Ain't provin' nothing by stabbing yourself and putting on a front like it doesn't hurt you.

    Fuck the notion of putting Being A Good Person over Healing Your Emotional Wounds.
    #2 Kooriryu, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
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  3. I agree with Kooriryu. And I also think that nobody owes another person his or her company, regardless of whether they fought earlier or not. If someone you fought with or who hurt you wants to speak to you civilly, he or she may honestly feel all right with your company, and if you also feel that way, that is good; but if you don't feel all right in the company of some people, whatever the reason, then I think you have no obligation whatsoever to stay in their company. Even if they didn't do anything to hurt you. But especially if they did.
    On the other hand, they may not know whether you feel all right in their company now, until or unless told so, and thus they can have no obligation to leave you alone... until you tell them so. Which, I believe, they should then accept.
    (And "you" here is an impersonal subject, I mean anyone who doesn't like being around some people.)
  4. - Needs a dumber version of waht Zori is asking -
  5. @W: How do you handle people you don't agree with

    @Koori: I wasn't asking for advice I already have a system that works for me! I moreso wanted to start a conversation about it

    In general I don't think the concept of feeling obligated to mend old wounds is right. You shouldn't feel obligated, ever, to do anything.
  6. Con... vers... ation? Is... is that like a rant but with more than one person?
  7. I think of civility as a way to show your disapproval of the other person (you wouldn't address a friend formally, you'd be more relaxed and humorous.), especially if coupled with a bit of witty attitude, without directly sparking a confrontation.
    But maybe I'm a little passive-aggressive at times... I revel in the remarks that make a room go "Oooh!" and the opponent at a loss for words.
    Now, if they're actually trying to be neutral and not start an incident, perhaps they feel just threatened enough by you to keep things cool. Or they don't give a... hoot about you - you're not worth it anymore.

    Hmm... I feel like I should do research on this, but I can't really think of anyone to experiment on :/
    Whelp. Tell me your personal findings!
  8. If you end up in the same room as someone you hate and they're talking to you civilly - GOOD. Sometimes you're gonna end up running in to people like that, it's unavoidable. Whether you work with them, live with them, or frequent the same places. If you HAVE to interact with each other, you should always do it politely and with civility. Being catty, rude, sassy, aggressive, etc with your enemies when you're out in these public situations is a TERRIBLE thing to do. Not only are you making trouble for yourself, you're creating and awful atmosphere for all the other people who are around you at the time.

    If you don't have to talk to them - fuck it. Don't. Avoid them, walk away, leave, ignore them. There is no sense in forcing yourself to interact with someone you don't like.

    When I don't like someone, I don't talk to them. I don't allow them to be in my physical space in real life, and I don't let them talk to me online. There is a guy here in town who is a "friend" of a friend, and he's not even allowed to LOOK at my house. I have him blocked on facebook so I can't see any of his messages on other people's pages. And my friend won't even say his name around me cause I get that upset. (He now refers to him as Voldemort. c__c) Even here on Iwaku, if I have a personal dislike for a member, (whether it's just a clash of personality or they did something shitty) I just flat out avoid dealing with them in any situation if I don't have/need to. I will leave the cbox, not post in their threads, avoid any roleplays they are in and even drop out of a roleplay if they are in it. If they need site help or get involved in a drama, I ask a coadmin or a different staffer to handle it. I'm not gonna put myself in to any situation where A) I might let my bad feelings START a fight or B) leave possibility for a drama situation that could make OTHERS uncomfortable.

    As for -telling- people to stay away from you and not talk to you, it's a weird complicated thing. I always feel like you should tell them, cause that seems like the right thing to do - but then even I don't always wanna do that cause it's awkward and you feel bad, and what if you're just being an asshole and later you realize you like the person, or [insert whatever reasons here]. @__@ So I never tell someone I hate them and they are not allowed to speak to me unless they did something REALLY REALLY BAD that I can't get over. I just feel like avoiding those people is better for BOTH of us, because it removes the potential of me/them getting pissy. And later when the situation is diffused, I can decide whether or not they are someone I can/should work things out with, or if they are someone I need to permanently avoid.
  9. Personally, I'm a very odd ball in the situation. I believe having and open mind to mend old wounds is the first step to bettering yourself as a person. By bettering yourself I don't mean "I'm a good person everyone loves me." i mean coming closer to that person you ould possibly want to be. If you want to be a person people likes, if you want to give great advice, if you want to be in a public service job, i you dream of teaching anyone anything, if you desire more from this shit hole we call 'life, and or if you want to be someone of influence in your community having an open mind to those you cannot stand and learning how to 'play it cool' in an environment where they are is paramount.

    In my opinion you don't have to go about TRYING to heal your relationship, some folks are just down right fucking ignorant twits who can't see past their own nose (Thus they can't dress themselves proper)! However the "love those that have hated you and done you wrong' mentality isn't a sewage thought. It roots itself back in time beyond religious principle and into the morals and folkway of the past. I'm not saying go around out of your way to be friends with that person. What Im saying is there's no point in you walking around like a victim hating that person and the wry sight of them for the rest of your natural life. There's no point in anger filling your heart a 'bad taste' flooding your mouth and your wry mind being consumed by the savage thought of them being happy. A lot of people aren't merely angry with the person that wronged them, they vindictively wallow in the moment that hurt them with the very words brazened in their ears the very imaged burned into their eyes. These are the people who need to forgive, let it go, and move the fuck on with their life. Encouraging that level of hatred only breeds stupidity, ignorance, violence, and mindless hours of thought. You have better things to do with your life than remember why you hate X person, I believe it and so should you!

    To me having all these people, or one person, you can't 'get along with' is stupid. I can mold myself and change what I do so that I can not step on someones toes, if they choose to persue me afterwards that's their beef, they're looking for trouble? Then I smite them with fire from above and bellow watch them wallow in the very thing they call an existance and laugh about it later. I watch as their 'freidns' ostracize them , but all in all I did nothing to provoke them and didn't 'summon' their wrath upon me. Otherwise, if they wanna get along I let the inside every aspect of my life, because i don't HAVE to be reminded of that dumbshit you did to hurt me. I don't have to have my mind go back int ime to tat time when you hurt my feelings, insulted my dad, stole my girlfriend, hurt my mother. I assume people grow, change, and become better people than they were yesterday. But hatred breeds hatred, violence begets violence.

    Sadly the thought o "Move the fuck on with your life" Has been lost to the nintiees and we instead encourage people to hold firm to their feelings because it's "okay to hate" and it's not. Honestly, so long as you aren't hating a person, so long as you don't despise them, if yous itll don't want them around that's different. That's a personal preference, it could be that y'all just don't share the same tasts and he annoys you, that's fine. But when you ahve to ask them to leave you be, it's clearly more than annoyance, and it's not okay.

    I leave with this video of Robert F Kenedy that's quite famous, anyone above the age of 25 has more than likely heard it.



    Uhm.... im not the sassy black iwakuan for nothing?
    Have you not seen me go at it with Ocha back in the day?

    But honestly most times, ill try to go for things at a reasonable point of view... more like a debate or a hard discussion...
    And if things continue to a part where i feel insulted, ill argue >:I
  11. I don't see why it shouldn't be natural to hate, or have any sort of feeling, for that matter. I think the moment we decide that having this or that feeling is bad... well, then we start deciding what people should be like, and that's not very fruitful, I find; when advocated, it might cause a very acute feeling of disapproval for the advocate's person in those told to change.
    (See how politely I said that?)
    I think there will always be people who find it better for their own peace of mind to forgive, and those who find it better for their own peace of mind to wish pestilence, fire and brimstone upon whoever they percieve as an enemy. A good pestilence-wishing, when someone makes me angry enough, always leaves me with a feeling of catharsis, and - while not more likely to forgive - I will be less likely to dwell on the subject, as I will already have found the satisfactory conclusion (that is, that my enemy should die in a way I'd have to put behind a spoiler-tag for violence) and will have no further thoughts on the matter. Then I can move on.
    I forgive when or if I honestly feel that the person in question isn't really an enemy and what he, she or it did doesn't bother me anymore. I don't do it for my own peace of mind, I do it because that is the case. If I were to "decide to" forgive someone without actually not being bothered by what he, she or it said anymore, it would just irritate me more and I would feel like a hypocrite for not acknowledging what I really think (which is that they should *spoilerworthy violence*). Not everyone works this way, I realise, but I do.

    As for a speech anyone above 25 probably heard - you do realise, Zorilla, that most of those above 25 are also not American, don't you? Because I have so far had very little reason to listen to any American speeches.
    #11 Aigilas, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2013
  12. Why is hatred not an 'okay' thing? Have yous een what hatred has done to people in the past? Of coruse you have. It is fr those reasons that I say Hatred shouldn't be an 'okay thing" behind that word peoples cultures hae been lost, families torn apart, and every aspect of their lives torn to shreds.Where hatred lives peace very seldom follows. If you're the kind of person that can do a good 'wishing' and move on that's fine and dandy. Some folks can't, some take their hatred and hold it on to it and take it out on more and more people. The tend to be 'bitter' people and no one wants tof eel their wrath. Are all people like that ? No, many aren't. Are enough people like that? I'd say yes, and therein I feel Hatred isn't an okay thing to spread and when felt, though it's OKAY to feel hatred, we should learn to handle it in away that's posiitve to ourselves and to others around us.

    (( I'd assume the 'if your American' is a general given since I myself am American. They enjoyed playing this speech in school systems. Although two of my friends from the UK know the speech very well one of which has memorized it -scary- so sorry if that offended you or something.))
  13. When it comes to people that have hurt me, I don't talk to them. I go out of my way to avoid coming into contact with them. If randomly forced into such a situation, I will be polite. Dangerously so, in fact. You know that there's something wrong when I'm being stilted, cold, and formal. And then, at the nearest possibility, I will leave and not return to said situation.

    I think there's a very real difference between hatred and hurt. Hatred, in my opinion, is a consuming emotion as poisonous and dangerous to the person hating as to the hated. It's an emotion of helplessness and desperation and something that needs help, because it will hurt everyone involved. Hurt, on the other hand, is normal. When someone has hurt you, I don't think you should feel wrong for wanting nothing to do with them. I don't have a much better term for the latter at this exact moment in time, but I feel that there is a difference between being wounded and hating someone.
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  14. Kitti ALL of that second paragraph just ALL of it!
  15. I believe in keeping my friends close and my enemies closer. So I know their every move, so that they are unaware.
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  16. One can say hatred is destructive; yet in that, I think, hatred is also like teeth. I have teeth which are a part of me, and which are very useful for example when I want to chew my food instead of having to mash it into a puree, which is an option, but not a very pleasant one. If I run around biting everyone, I will probably get incarcerated in very short order, but that won't be because I have teeth and a capacity to bite, but because I don't make good choices about using them. So my teeth should not be pulled out but instead I should be clever and responsible about using them.
    In the hands of someone who is not clever and responsible about using them, teeth, hatred, farming and kitchen implements, automobiles, computers, hair dryers, sticks, fire, and most anything I can think of are dangerous and destructive (to themselves and others).
  17. Assuming the blame wasn't mine . . .​
    An apology given for the sake of apologizing is no apology at all and I would rather hear silence than be insulted by having to listen to the person in question lie to my face. I will not apologies if I am not genuinely sorry.​
    If for some reason I find myself in a situation where I have to be social with someone I’d rather not talk too, my first choice is to walk away. However, there are some situations where I cannot simply get out of talking to that person and rather than reminding the person that “I’m still angry,” I would rather pretend in civility that whatever it was that bothered me had not occurred rather than attempt to mend fences when the other party clearly doesn’t care that their action/words/whatever were wrong/hurtful/mean etc. Perhaps I have to work with them, perhaps I simply don’t want to drag any bystanders into the argument, perhaps I simply think that continuing the argument is not worth my time.​
    If the other person genuinely wants to talk about it then I’m usually willing to listen, usually. It doesn’t mean everything will suddenly be better, it just means I’m willing to listen. There have been a few occasions where I learned something I had not been expecting and the relationship was able to be repaired, just as there have been occasions where I walked away wondering why I’d ever been friends with that person in the first place.​
    As far as hate goes . . . There is a difference between hate and what I would call roiling anger. Personally I think hate will always do harm to the hater if not the hated. Hate is what festers inside. Eventually it consumes every thought and vengeance on “that person” becomes an unhealthy obsession. There is no peace of mind with hate, and left alone long enough it leaves no room for anything else. Roiling anger on the other hand is just that, extremely strong anger that may be used to drive events forward. Perhaps it spurs a person to break all ties with that person they never should have gotten involved with. Perhaps it’s anger on someone’s behalf and it gives courage to tell that person that they have to get their act together. Perhaps it just leads to saying what’s really on your mind for once. Sure it can last a long time, and used incorrectly cause a lot of trouble, but in the end, when it fades, there’s room for healing. (By that I mean internal healing for the person who felt it, and nothing to do with the original cause.)​
  18. I avoid and ignore the people I don't get along with in chat rooms. I don't like conflict, I don't like arguing. I'm also just a sensitive lady, so I get hurt much less if I just don't speak to them. Should they be engaging me in a conversation that I for some reason have to be a part of, well, I talk to them as respectfully as I would any other. Sure, they scarred me. But I feel no need to be a bitch about it. Talking as if you're not bothered has sweeter results, anyway. The people who despise me don't like to see me be anything but upset, so hah. ;p

    If there's an enemy of mine physically in the same room as me and they're being civil, I am civil in return. Keeps the drama away from the rest of my peers, and I can go home feel confident in the idea that I can coexist with this person or people.

    A prime example would be my step-father. He's abused me, hurt my family, lied, got arrested... Just, done a number of things to ruin me. He's the main reason I have anxiety, PTSD and other fucked up things. Even so, I don't act like a savage. When we're in the same room, I converse with him calmly. He does the same for me. I have expressed my disdain towards him, but not in an overly negative way. Just a "You did this and this and this to me, it's hurt me, this is what I want you to do to make it up to me" sort of message.

    On the subject of hatred: I don't hate. That is far too big of a burden to carry on one's shoulders. :/ I feel strong dislike towards people, of course. I have ways of coping with that so it doesn't start eating me alive. I won't say I'm incapable of hating, though. I can think of a few good reasons to feel that way about somebody.
  19. Yeah Fluffy I totally understand how you feel. Personally I like to think that forgivness is the key to all happiness, it works for me. I like to forgive the people who've wronged me because it's less baggae i have to hold onto xD