Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by SacredWarrior, Oct 20, 2015.

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  1. This is a rant that I've been meaning to post for a while now.

    Before I start ranting, let me just say this: I’M NOT AGAINST FEMINISM AT ITS CORE! I’m against the radicals that are disgracing the movement and making themselves and women in general look like shit.

    Sexism is a two-way street people. A TWO-WAY STREET! Yes there is still sexism and stereotypes against women but men suffer from sexism as well. Just look at the man-hating anti-sex radicals who want special treatment based on their gender and making it look as if they want equal rights. Unfortunately the shitty media also portrays sexism against women more than sexism against men.

    I can see why the real feminists (the ones who fight for equality for everyone) are calling themselves humanists now because the radicals are usually the loudest and seen the most and they don’t want to be associated with them. Neither do I.

    For any fools who want to challenge me about sexism against men, here are some examples:

    If a woman is abused by a man, people will rush to her aid like a white knight. But if a man is abused by a woman, people will either do nothing or laugh. Most of the time, domestic violence is towards the male partner. It’s just never reported because of the bias and stereotype that men are always the aggressor in domestic violence.

    Divorce and custody cases are men slaughterhouses. Men are evicted from their homes, ripped away from their children against the wishes of the child, and when they can’t stretch their paycheck to take care of two households, they’re called deadbeats and will be thrown in jail for failing to pay alimony and child support when they were set too damn high to begin with and honestly with the way some of these disgraces to the female gender behave, they don’t deserve shit and they should be the ones footing the bill not the guy.

    If men are raped, no one bats an eye or some dumbass will say that men can’t be raped. If a woman is raped, while there is definitely a victim-blaming issue in society that needs to be addressed for both genders, chances are she’s gonna have more support.

    A man can’t cry or express emotion without being told to suck it up and be a man. Bottling up those emotions is one of the main reasons why men tend to live shorter lives than women. The stress can be life-threatening and is usually a silent killer.

    Men are nine times more likely to go to jail than a woman for committing the same crime. They will also receive harsher sentences up to being put to death while women usually don’t.

    I find it funny that the radicals are always talking about sexism against women but based on what I just said, there’s a lot of sexism against men too. But unfortunately no one gives a shit because who cares about men? It’s not like they’re human beings or have fucking feelings according to the media and society. In my opinion, women are far more dangerous and deadlier than men can ever hope to be.

    Let’s not forget that the U.S. is MILES better than other countries when it comes to women. It still has issues of course but let’s be real here. You wanna see oppression against women? Go to the Middle East. Now THAT’S oppressive against women. But it’s not like the radicals know that cause they have no intelligence and have the mentality of a serial killer.

    Well that’s all I have for today. Hopefully I’ve opened up someone’s eyes. Deuces bitches!
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  2. Jesus. O____O I was JUST thinking about this EXACT THING last night and now I feel like a creepy psychic again.

    All of those things you posted are 100% correct and one of the many reasons feminism is so important. :( It's "EQUALITY OF THE SEXES" not "women are better than men" and not "all men are horrible rapists".

    Because women are treated like a lesser sex, any man that behaves or tries to fill the "role of the woman" will also be treated like shit. Women are not the only ones suffering because men are elevated to this position of strength, power, and cultural stereotypes.

    I have a guy friend on facebook who constantly pisses me off if I post something feminist on my feed, cause he'll do the whole "well men are screwed by ____" (he actually brought up the custody issue last time) and I am like I KNOW DUDE. THAT'S WHY YOU NEED FEMINISM TOO. @____@

    I hate extremists. :/ Unfortunately the exist in everything and about everything. It takes strong people and voices to work against it.
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  3. Unfortunately the extremists seem to have hijacked the feminist movement. The real feminists are calling themselves humanists or egalitarians now just so they won't be lumped in with them.

    I have heard that the custody thing being biased towards men is mostly a myth since most of the time, it's settled out of court and abusive men tend to have custody 70% of the time.
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  4. People who are abusive also tend to be REALLY good manipulators, they bend the truth and break you down like some motherfuckers. ;__; Guy or girl you're pretty screwed if you end up with a particularly crazy one.
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  5. Yeah true which can explain why abusive mothers may get custody over fathers. In some cases, the child may even wind up dead by their hand. Same goes for abusive fathers. That REALLY pisses me off.
  6. Just to add to a few things :D

    I think that's also why guys generally do crazier crimes (Say mass shootings) All those bottled up emotions, no way to express them, makes people go crazy. I would know, my bottle was quite full there for a while nearly bursted a few years back too o.o But then I discovered how to apply vents to the sides of the bottle ^^ (And was able to get away from them... Well I did get in a bit of trouble for it, but I knew that sitting calmly(ish) at ISS or something was better than what I might have done. But the counselor had mah back :D Or maybe I should have bursted, maybe me bursting would teach the person a thing or two and save a few people in the future from their ways. But I had my own plans for the future so I wasn't about to ruin it right then and there.

    I think it's more of a matter they don't care. They don't live there, so anything done there won't effect them here. While here, it's close to home. What they do will domino effect to themselves eventually for their better life. Like say they do get everything they want in America, I don't think they will go across borders and even attempt a place like the middle east. (Or they know their fate if they try :P Like have you heard of a single extremist even coming close to backing Malala? Because all their money and support seems to go to are the higherup extremist in their own groups (Why funny enough, have a war with eachother sometimes)
  7. Yeah you made a good point about men doing crazier crimes because of bottling up their emotions.

    That too. If only they didn't get so much damn attention -_-
  8. People tend to say they got so big because we gave them attention. I don't think so. I think they got attention BECAUSE they got so big.

    When it first started, it was for the most part ignored, very isolated (From what I can tell) Then certain people got bigger and started talking, spreading their ideas and/or repeating other peoples ideas becoming a spokeswoman of sorts. They then gained allot of money, and then using that money to start effecting bigger things and gaining actual power. THEN that's when I think people started giving them attention, they started a war with things that millions of people like, and even a war on peoples very own bodies, and then people retaliated. But by the time the retaliation started, it was already too late, and the process has begun.

    Lets take Anita for example, if people went after her before she got all that money, I have a feeling she would have backed down and quit. So much retaliation with no apparent pay off? I don't think many people could keep going after that. By the time she got her massive retaliation, her career started and she had quite a bit of money, making the payoff well worth everything else.

    Now, I think it's too big to fall, from the outside anyway.
  9. I can only sigh with sadness at how much feminism has been ruined :(
  10. Yeah DX But maybe it's a good thing. The feminist name has been a thing for years, and has had 3 waves so far. (Or 3 ways of dealing with sexism) it's basically been a monopoly of sorts. Now that the monopoly has been corrupted, there was no competition for people to fall back on, and no other place for real feminist to go. Feminism held all the power, and now it's leaders have become corrupt.

    With feminism being corrupted, it shows us that even groups such as this needs different groups. That way if one becomes corrupted, the others can keep doing good as the corrupted one falls. With the raise of humanist/equalist/others, there are different groups who are different, but all work together for the same goal. Each slightly different (I imagine) But that just means the truly important things will be dealt with as all 3 will agree on the super important things. Instead of one powerhouse dictating what's important and what is not important.

    Take cancer donation places for example, some of them are pretty damn scummy, even sueing other donation places who are for the same cause. Fortunately, there are separate organizations for the same thing. But if that one company remained the ONLY one for cancer, then maybe cancer research wouldn't have made it as far as it did due to it being corrupt.
  11. Yeah it would be nice for there to be separate feminist groups but they have to become HUGE in order to be as known as the misandrists. And that will be pretty difficult because of the shitty mainstream media.
  12. What generatres the most controversey nabs the most attention... Social media actually abuses this trait in our society, riding the "wave" essentially; while there are indeed legitimate movements out there, the line begins to blur between a promotional movement (or a movement to simply garner profits, and possibly attention) and a movement that's actually designed to change something rather than become a big attention (and money) sponge :S
    #12 york, Oct 20, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  13. The "real feminists" are still here, still calling themselves feminists. What you are doing by subscribing to that theeory, is discrediting Feminism as a whole by saying "All sane have abandoned the name." The whole "Feminists have turned into egletarians" is just another thing people like to spout to discredit feminism as a movement. The two aren't mutually exclusive. You can be both. I wager most of us sane ones are for all of it.

    The vocal, missguided lot you have a problem with only manages to hijack something if you let them. So don't let them. IF you know what is right in your heart, and by the logic of your brain. Let that help rebuild what's been tarnished.
    #13 Hellis, Oct 20, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  14. The only way for the rebuilding to happen is for us to get media attention, donations, and such but that shit isn't gonna happen since positivity is hated nowadays. Yeah I know some of them still call themselves feminists but now they have such a hard time because of all the misandrists which drives them away from the movement as a whole.
  15. The 'misandrist' are a tiny portion. And I really feel you buy into the narrative that feminism having gone to shit way to much.
  16. Narratives narratives :P not to be rude or anything, but, I could just as much say that you're buying into a "narrative" of your own, but... Eh, that aside, I'll get to the point; while I do agree the movement itself may still have grounds to stand on, it's the public image being tainted that's the main issue here... Personally, while the misandrists are a tiny portion, or at least are presumed to be as such, they sure make themselves stick out like crazy, garnering public interest and media coverage constantly, and I doubt such groups are the only ones benefiting from this either (media outlets with a bigger influx of viewers/listeners/readers are more likely to turn a better profit, if any, from this, logically speaking). I personally think that in order to shed some posotive light on the entire thing, we should probably concentrate on getting rid of, stemming the flow of, or in general, shifting the "overall" view of feminism itself over and away from the bad apples amidst the movements itself.... As difficult as it may be, though, I would suppose a more thorough discussion of how we, or, well, the movement in general would accomplish this; if a very large portion of the feminist movement itself exists, I believe, while it may take some time, that portion should be able to, perhaps using similar, but, much less corrosive strategies as those radicals do in an effort to counter the impact they've already made. Again, I'm not saying a majority of feminists are crazy or something, but, what I'm saying is that the few "zits" that stick out seem to have garnered enough public attention to sway the general public view on the movement towards their "standard" behavioral patterns. While this may not be an extreme top priority "we need to have a Nationwide meeting about this!" issue, it's still a big enough issue to stand out amidst various others that hover around the world, and, well, the US today.
  17. You won't see much argument from me on that point. It's why I said that people need to stand up for it. We need to fight the zits within the movement. Most of them are young, impressionable people for different reasons have a chip on their shoulder. Most of them build and reinforce their view on the matter trough the internet. Alot of them don't do enough research on what they are talking about, but buy into misconceptions that then stick with them. Stuff that then distracts from all manners of issues. Alot of this comes down to reasonable debate and having a hard look on where things stand. Something that is sorely lacking in general these days.

    My 'narrative' standpoint still stands though. People who wish to attack feminism almost always go the 'egalitarianism' route these days, and it is starting to stick in peoples mind. Becouse if you repeat something enough times with enough fervor, people will just assume it is true. It is a great way to undermine feminism, i'll give them that.
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  18. It should be noted the extremist often can do what they do because the moderates will rush to defend them, even if indirectly.

    To explain a bit further let's say an Egalitarian mentions something along the lines of "Feminism is being hi-jacked by the Extremists".
    Sometimes, a Moderate will get defensive to this since Feminism is now being viewed negatively and respond with something along the lines of "That's just the Extremist! Most of us are good!".

    Now, that may be true.
    But dig a bit deeper into this.

    The Moderate here just chose to argue the person addressing the issue in Feminism, rather than arguing the extremism.
    This effectively now discourages people from calling out this problem because now they're more likely to simply have to deal with people reminding them that it's a minority, even if they already knew that.
    Meanwhile, the Extremist are now not only protected from that criticism, but the criticism from those moderates because they're busy trying to defend the movement.

    In other words, the Extremist have just used the Moderates a Shield to hide from criticism with, may the Moderates approve of it or not.
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  19. Well, actually, what Hellis described is also indeed a factor in why so many people have followed the extremist movement in general, with the previously mentioned factors of course... However, I do also agree that the extremists have indeed been using the movement itself as a "meatshield" of sorts, undermining efforts to deter the practices, not just that... But extremists of this category often target an younger, and as Hellis mentioned, more impressionable audience, in an attempt to sway the "new generation" down a falsely painted path. All in all, I would say that once the "head honcho(s)" lose their ground, the rest of the extremist movement tends to follow; case in point with the Westboro Baptist Church (Sorry to sway off topic here), they were garnering some serious media attention... Till their infamous leader finally kicked the bucket; despite their persistence now, their movement has lost a massive fraction of media attention from what I've seen, as the spotlight has now turned to the radical portion of the feminist movement. Now, the question is how one would shift the spotlight... After all, minus the ISIS beheadings, "Race wars", etc etc, the spotlight has been shifted onto the radical feminists, because they appear to be the desirable topic of controversey, discussion, and one of the biggest "click/view magnets" in a manner of speaking. Even the people that don't agree with the movements may for example, stumble across a page about it, feel inclined to state their opinion about it (which is understandable, and a natural reaction), and maybe even share it with others. However, despite the intention being to demote, or, point out the flaws in the page, the owner(s) of the page will still be garnering profits (well, if the page has adsense, and/or other means of garnering profits off of visitors/readers in general). Therefore, people will be more inclined to talk about said topic; it's the new "hot discussion" really... So, well, what are we as a whole going to do about this focus? Well, it's all up to what sort of thing would be more desirable to be focused upon, and that would in general, be accepted as the new "paradigm" of things of discussion in social media. Now, I'm not saying this will prevent the extremist movements entirely, but, it will be at the very least, hampering and controlling the effects of said movements by safely diverting the public attention elsewhere, perhaps to something more... Reasonable.
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  20. This is also where we hit another snag: Logic VS Emotion.

    Human's are emotional creatures by nature, wanting to latch onto what feel's right.
    This also has the side effect of blinding people, ignoring certain information that's contradicts, believing information that supports them.
    For two main examples, the 27% wage gap or the 1 in 5 rape statistic.
    Point to any study and you'll find out how false these are, but it get's the blood flowing. It stirs far more passion and emotion to back it than the real info would.

    In short, Extremism feed's off of Human's natural behaviours.

    Meanwhile what these sort of movements actually require if Logic, critical thinking, analysis etc.
    But this isn't something where one can easily inspire people, it has a higher barrier of entry and means dealing with the world how it is, not how one wants it to be.

    So, if we want to divert attention elsewhere one need's a method that is both logical and can motivate people via emotion.
    And that is tricky when competing with people willing to invent anything for maximum emotional investment.
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