Self Aware Robots has been invented.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Has anyone ever considered the possibility that humans have a need to replicate life because this is how we came to be? Not through divine intervention but another species' curiosity of their scientific limits? Face it people, we're a bunch of monkey-see monkey-doers living in a giant petri dish xD

Assuming that was in fact how we were created, that would also require us to possess some form of memories from our Ancestors I would imagine.

Though to my knowledge there's a lack of evidence on that either way atm, so for now I'm simply going to have to take the stance of "It's a fun idea, but we'll see overtime if that's really what's happened".

I wish I was as certain about One Thing as General seems to be about everything. Life would be better. Superior, even. Nay, invincible.

If simple Math offends you, especially math where I clarified in advance that I could be wrong and encouraged people to call me out on it if I was?
Is there anything that doesn't piss you off? :P

 

[Tegan]

*Searches her original post for the words 'offend', 'pissed off', and Gwazi.*


Huh.

 

[Asmodeus]

She's not pissed off. She's expressing the common sentiment that you and Brovo ruin debates with your replies that are 40% quoting someone on a semantic technicality, 50% volume for the sake of volume, and 10% smattering of cohesive thoughts.

This is not good debating. All you are doing is using walls of text to put people off replying, for fear that they will be out of context or that you will quibble with them on how your 39th sentence should be read in relation to your 57th sentence.

You can claim qualifications and quote dictionary definitions all you want. But this simply comes down to some alpha male Reddit-style bullshit. You are using your posts to frame every discussion to the way you want it to be, then counting it as victory when everyone finds something better to do with their time.

You probably think that me, Unanun and others are trying to shut down debates when we tell you that you can't be sure of X, Y and Z. But in truth, someone needs to stand up against this brute, nitpicking, overbearing bludgeon of absolutes that you bring to most discussions.

I'm sure you would both explode if I labelled you Trolls or Bullies. So let's pretend I didn't say that. Go ahead and quote the ever-living fuck out of everything I just said and rejoice that you're cheeky little bastards who've riled everyone up.

I've spent most of my lunchbreak on this reply, so you are assured a win. Just quote me and retort - I won't have time to defend myself.

Also, stick a funny gif at the end of your response, so I know I'm not allowed to be mad.

 

[Tegan]

I was actually expressing my utter bafflement that people can be so resolute about every thought that occurs to them. But that works, too.

 

[Windsong]

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

*Searches her original post for the words 'offend', 'pissed off', and Gwazi.*


Huh.

*Re-reads post*

Oh... English is a bitch at times. >.<
Sorry, you said 'General' I assumed you meant as in the rank in my username 'General'.
Not the thread as a whole.

Sorry about that. :/

 

[Tegan]

I'm just happy that you're happy, jujubean.

 

[Peter Feels]

Love it.

 

[unanun]

Heeeey, I was wasn't even in dogpile mode :( FWIW, I think this was going fine, unlike that disaster of a thread, the topic if which I can't even remember, where Kestrel crucified me.

Back on topic, and a few technical points:

- We can't continue our progress with computers forever. In fact, intel, the leader in semiconductor fabrication technology, has dramatically slowed down their shrinkage cadence over the past few years. We are hitting an absolute limit related to the size of atoms.

- While it's true that many things about our mental state are controlled by chemicals, again, think of the why. Life is an amazing biochemical factory, and molecular signals are much easier to generate and have unique properties over electrical signals. But nothing really separates the two: at the end of the day, they're just signals.

- I think anything that is capable of making choice must have emotion. Lower reptiles and insects I consider to be 'instruction organisms' versus creatures like us. Australians proved a long time ago that even crocodiles can be easily tricked and fooled - they're just scary and deadly!

- As for ethics, ESPECIALLY ethics concerning cybernetics and AI and all that cyberpunk goodness, I only have one thing to say:

When I hear the word ethics, I reach for my Browning!

 

[Brovo]

Oh, we're going there, eh'? Fair enough.

*gets that sickly adolescent mountain dew debating sheen on his skin*

Eww...

*is the first time he's seriously read Brovo's arguments and is very confused by his ferretsplaining* o_O

You've spent this entire discussion mocking and deriding Gwazi and myself. This is all you ever do. You stated that this was the "first time you've seriously read Brovo's arguments", so I decided to try and have a sincere discussion with you, and Unanun, and I would have even tried with Tegan if she wanted to. I typically have a lot to say on subjects--it's just who I am, and bemoaning that fact just makes you childish. "Mommy, the man said too many big words" is not a good counter argument. I quote specific lines so I can write specific responses to specific statements--if I ever misquote something, I'm more than happy to have people correct me on it. Even in this very thread with you and Unanun, I've made statements that essentially boil down to "that's interesting, I'll have to think on it" and "I actually agree with you" and so on. I've been more than happy to concede points. I've made a public apology before just in case I was offending, and people overwhelmingly replied that I wasn't. So what do you do?

I wish I was as certain about One Thing as General seems to be about everything. Life would be better. Superior, even. Nay, invincible.

She's not pissed off. She's expressing the common sentiment that you and Brovo ruin debates with your replies that are 40% quoting someone on a semantic technicality, 50% volume for the sake of volume, and 10% smattering of cohesive thoughts.

This is not good debating. All you are doing is using walls of text to put people off replying, for fear that they will be out of context or that you will quibble with them on how your 39th sentence should be read in relation to your 57th sentence.

You build up a giant fucking strawman and beat the ever loving shit out of it. I'm not going to speak on Gwazi's behalf, because I'm not Gwazi and we often disagree on topics, but this behaviour is beyond stupid and you know it. You wanted a discussion, I gave you one, you complained about length, and now you're making false character accusations so you can go on a giant, incoherent, babbling tirade about it.

I'm sorry my thoughts are rarely condensed. I'm sorry I actually decided to take your statement of wanting to take the discussion serious sincerely. I now realize that was a lie, because you're still stuck in that attack mode setting of "Brovo must be having e-peen contests!" Because I'm not. I was sincerely interested in the subject matter, explored it, learned some things, and thought we had a good discussion. Apparently, I was wrong.

If you really hate everything I do, you can just block me. There's a button for it on my profile.

Also, the alpha male Reddit thing is genuinely hilarious coming from the guy who couldn't just walk away from the discussion and had to somehow tie the quote feature's use and long statements as some kind of conspiracy of e-peen stroking. Especially when you've spent this whole thread mocking people. The worst I did was accuse your position of arrogance, and retracted that gradually as Unanun made well enunciated points.

Anyway, since I've most obviously offended your greater sensibilities, I do sincerely apologize and wish you a nice day. Believe it or not, I don't hate you, or Unanun, or Tegan, or whoever else. Y'all just have different opinions than me, and they're often interesting to read.

 

[Tegan]

I will say this once, for the record, just because I am married to Asmo doesn't mean I agree with what he does. It does mean I will take his side no matter what, that's just how that kind of partnership works. That's how a lifetime relationship is sustained.


But my comment was directed at him as much as anyone who involves themselves in this farcical feud. Yeah, sometimes tempers flare and we get into arguments.


But come on guys. This is getting silly.


And on that note, I'm out. Really, I shouldn't have involved myself in the first place, but sometimes the need for sass is strong when witnessing a brood of precious little opinions. That's a facet of being human, creating antagonists for our stories.


Let's hope our AIs aren't so fucking stupid.

 

[Brovo]

But my comment was directed at him as much as anyone who involves themselves in this farcical feud. Yeah, sometimes tempers flare and we get into arguments.

Thank you, but I don't think I'll try again. Asmodeus doesn't stop with personal attacks and never will. Shikata ga nai, Tegan.

 

[Tegan]

Thank you

Don't read into it.

 

[Brovo]

You can claim qualifications and quote dictionary definitions all you want. But this simply comes down to some alpha male Reddit-style bullshit. You are using your posts to frame every discussion to the way you want it to be, then counting it as victory when everyone finds something better to do with their time.

Don't read into it.

There's no reading into what is plainly obvious on the surface. There's no point, it's never going to stop. It's been ongoing since I got here, whether I ignored him or not. So... Shikata Ga Nai. Thanks for the thought, Tegan.

 

[Kestrel]

For the record, I was quite enjoying reading this. I don't have much knowledge on the technical side of how to program awareness, I just know bits and pieces of neuroscience and philosophy, but actually liked the discussion. So. Thanks @unanun, @Brovo, @Gen. Gwazi Magnum PI and even to some degree @Asmodeus

Also, I'm going to try and explain a few things peacefully here. Maybe it helps I'm a third party? I don't know. Also I'm going to try and not say fuck as much as I usually do because I don't want people to think I'm a fuming keyboard warrior or something.

One. Quoting, excessive as it may seem, is a tool to specifically reference individual points. Not a way to chase people away. While I know Brovo has a tendency to come on very strong, he's not out there to silence people. I am not very fond of a lot of Gwazi myself either and don't know him well enough to vouch for, but I do not think his intent is malicious. The point of quoting is saying "Hi, this is the part I'm replying to." I understand this zooms in on topics very closely, which may kind of feel like they're undressing you by going for the details instead of leaving you all clothed and dignified by just addressing the global view, but this is because people attach importance to different things. They want to understand the inner workings. The how and why someone thinks what they think. This is because they their selves, cannot form an idea or opinion properly without researching these things as others might find their selves able to. It's not a good or bad thing. It's just different.

Next. Alpha male as a term is semi-explained in this infographic here, although it is very often misused, so it's understandable why you'd interpret it like a fedora-community tries to sell it. Everyone rides on this flawed etymology as well. I'll explain why this is dumb further down below.

Though group-animals we might be, we rarely speak in terms of alpha and beta like we can in like, wolf-packs. This is because there can only be one alpha per group and everyone else would automatically be lower than that. So basically, most people would be beta or lower and because we associate beta as a negative thing, that'd insult a lot of people. Honestly, a group would only have very few betas anyway as they are typically second in command. Yet, even ignoring the feelings-argument here, it still makes little sense to label people alpha or beta in terms of group mechanics. Given how we, unlike wolves, are all part of all different kinds of groups. It'd also be inconsistent. For example.

• In a lot of college projects, I often take the lead. So here you could say I am the alpha.
• When I am in a group of motivated and skilful people, I prefer to sit around the table as equals to pull the most value out of everyone. You can't have multiple alphas, so the dynamic falls flat on it's face.
• When it comes to family decisions, my father and mother are a lot more involved and dominant than me. I am a beta at best in this dynamic.

One might argue that people have tendencies towards a certain role and that is certainly true. However, alpha, beta, etcetera, refers to a role within the context of a group. So, it's kind of dumb to call yourself alpha or beta or whatever, especially outside of that context.

Oh and trolling is the art of causing a maximum amount of disruption with a minimal amount of effort. Trolling means you're more of an instigator than a part taker. But I guess this term has been butchered beyond redemption so whatever. I prefer my old-interwebz definition.

Now, if things can go on peacefully I'd really like to read more of this discussion. I thought it was going quite well.

 

[Diana]

There are at least twenty different reasons why you're all idiots. @___@ Every single one for a different reason.

In the end, it adds up to us not having adult conversations in General Chatting because the kids are fighting again. :D So I'mma lock this topic and wonder where I went wrong as a mommy. ;__;