Poor Japan

[Alan]

Yamaguchi Prefecture has asked Chugoku Electric to hold off on construction of Kaminoseki nuclear power plant.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110315004260.htm

YAMAGUCHI--Yamaguchi Prefecture has requested that Chugoku Electric Power Co. suspend construction of its Kaminoseki nuclear power plant, in light of the explosions at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant, Yamaguchi Gov. Sekinari Nii said.
Wataru Nishimura, deputy governor of the prefecture, met the utility's Vice President Mitsuo Matsui on Sunday and asked him to halt construction, Nii said Monday.
"Please carefully observe how the central government and Tokyo Electric Power Co. deal with [the accidents at the Fukushima plant] and take any necessary action," Nishimura was quoted as telling Matsui. The Kaminoseki nuclear plant is designed to use boiling water reactors similar to the Fukushima plant.

Al Jazeera, via their live blog, now says the radiation levels in Tokyo "remain normal."

Also from the live blog, comes something many of us have suspected for a while now.

A fire has once again broken out at the No.4 reactor at Fukushima - the reactor that has been responsible for pumping out the high levels of radioactivity, which prompted government to issue that warning for those within 30km to stay indoors.
Yesterday, Tepco asked US military officials for help putting out that fire - we're not sure how they're going to put this fire out.
Yesterday, we heard from Prime Minister Naoto Kan, who we're told believed Tepco was hiding information from state officials, and there's a concern among people that they're not being told the full truth about what's going on.
It is of critical concern.
There's concern here as well that the nuclear fallout may reach here, on the other side of Japan. Everyone is watching wind directions. At the moment, it is blowing out to the east, to the sea - but if it blows south, Tokyo is just 250km away.
​

 

[Alan]

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_09.html

Agency: Water level falls in No.5 reactor

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says the coolant level has fallen in the No.5 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The Agency had earlier said the No.5 reactor stopped safely during a regular inspection when the massive earthquake and tsunami occurred on Friday.

At the time of the quake, nuclear fuel rods were already in the reactor and workers had to circulate water to cool them down.

(Continued)

Meanwhile, on the other side of the facility...

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_13.html

Fire breaks out again at No.4 reactor

Tokyo Electric Power says the building of the No.4 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is on fire again. Nobody was injured.

The company said at a press conference that the fire was confirmed at 5:45 AM on Wednesday. It says the northwestern corner of the 4th floor, which was on fire on Tuesday, has caught fire again. This is where the pump used to put water into the reactor is located.

TEPCO has requested firefighters. It said workers cannot reach the fire due to the high level of radioactivity at the site.

The No.4 reactor caught fire at 9 AM on Tuesday. TEPCO said the first fire extinguished itself.
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 07:46 +0900 (JST)

 

[Alan]

A lot of breaking news from Kyodo, and no stories to any of them.

BREAKING NEWS: Support from U.S. forces might be necessary to cool reactors: Edano (11:35)
BREAKING NEWS: Water injection into No.4 reactor has yet to begin: Edano (11:34)
BREAKING NEWS: Containment vessels of No.1, No.3 reactors may be damaged: Edano (11:30)
NEWS ADVISORY: No plans to expand evacuation area near troubled nuke plant: Edano (11:27)
BREAKING NEWS: Fukushima No. 3 reactor's container feared partially damaged: Edano (11:27)
NEWS ADVISORY: No reports of explosion after smoke came out of nuke plant: Edano (11:26)
NEWS ADVISORY: No reports of explosion from No. 3 reactor: Edano (11:26)
NEWS ADVISORY: Edano calls on people to save gas and other fuel (11:25)
BREAKING NEWS: Radiation level briefly tops 2 milisievert at Fukushima plant: TEPCO (11:24)
BREAKING NEWS: Radiation levels at Fukushima plant rose after 10 a.m.: Edano (11:23)
NEWS ADVISORY: Edano urges public to stop panic buying of fuel (11:22)
NEWS ADVISORY: TEPCO can't check smoke at Fukushima plant as radiation is too high (11:16)

What can be gleamed from this? If all of this is true, then the following:

a. Tokyo Electric stated earlier this evening (around 10am GST+9) that the "smoke" from the Reactor 3 "might be steam." If the radiation level is that high, what's the possibility of it being just steam?

b. 2mSv is an extremely high dose of radiation to encounter all at once. To put this in perspective, the average American is typically exposed to around 3mSv... per year.

c. If it's true that the containment vessels of reactors 1 and 3 are damaged, shit just got very real.

d. Not only Americans should come to the aid of Japan in this crisis, any country with the personnel equipped and trained to deal with nuclear issues should come to Japan's aid.

From everything we've been told via the Japanese Government, and Tokyo Power, we are forced to assume that some of this could have been averted had the whole truth come out from the start.

To be clear, I personally do not believe officials in Japan have been as forthcoming with information as they should have been. It's always better to admit that help is needed at the slightest hint of being overwhelmed, rather than to downplay everything. This is opinion, and regardless of whether any of the above quoted is true. It's always best to be 100 percent honest.

 

[Woodrat]

To be clear, I personally do not believe officials in Japan have been as forthcoming with information as they should have been. It's always better to admit that help is needed at the slightest hint of being overwhelmed, rather than to downplay everything. This is opinion, and regardless of whether any of the above quoted is true. It's always best to be 100 percent honest.

To be honest, no country... and hardly any person is honest up front that they "fucked up" or swallow their pride and admit their screw'd right off the bat. Pride and fear of embarrassment/failure is a common trait among everyone. And the Japanese are mayhap among the last that want to admit failure in handling a situation. Even one on this type of scale.

Also if anyone sees this freakin thing... Link

IGNORE IT!! It's causing a massive panic in North America and a rush of folks buying useless iodide pills.

Despite expert assurances that nuclear radiation won't reach the shores of America, demand for potassium iodide has swamped the stocks of all three manufacturers or suppliers approved by the federal Food and Drug Administration for use in the U.S.

If anything, taking those pills could wreck your thyroid. That and the fact that drug companies and dealers in such pills will make a bloody killing off of the panic of people and hype up the threat even more.

As for current news on the plant (Fukushima Daaichi) ... jezz how much can change in only a few hours. Unknown what is correct or not... but...

0029: Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) says it will be extremely difficult to spray water from a helicopter to cool down a storage pool for spent nuclear fuel in the No.4 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi plant. Earlier Japanese news agency Kyodo reported that the storage pool could be boiling, while Tepco said readings showed high levels of radiation, making the building inaccessible.


0117: Live Japanese television pictures appear to show white smoke still billowing in the area of the building housing the No.4 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, despite reports that a new fire there was under control.


0146 : Tepco says the reactor 3 at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has been emitting white smoke for about 45 minutes,Kyodo News reports.The plant's reactor 4 was the one where a fire broke out earlier this morning, Tepco said.


0221: Japanese Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano says the authorities are still looking for the cause of white smoke billowing from reactor 3 at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. He says the radiation reading at the plant is fluctuating by the hour.


0236: Mr Edano, Japan's chief government spokesman, says workers trying to douse the reactors with water were forced to retreat when radiation levels surged there.


0252: Two crew members on an Australian search and rescue helicopter showed low levels of radiation contamination after they were forced to make an emergency landing in Fukushima on Wednesday, AFP news agency reports. Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard was quoted as saying the radiation was detected on their boots. They landed about 12 miles (20km) outside the exclusion zone surrounding the plant.


0320: Staff have now been evacuated from Fukushima because of a spike in radiation levels, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a news conference.


0325: More on that news conference by Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano. He said: "At around 0830 today, at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, white smoke has been seen coming out of reactor three. And regarding this, currently we are looking for the cause.

Basically the facililty is being left unmanned, the hoses and remaining pumps left on to hopefully keep water on the damaged reactors. Appearently... white smoke... (steam?) is coming out of the structure.

In regards to the damage from the tsunami itself...

0008: The Japanese authorities are still struggling to cope with the humanitarian aftermath of Friday's earthquake and tsunami. More than 500,000 people are living in temporary shelters, which are short of water, food and fuel - while more freezing weather and snow is predicted for the days ahead. Nearly 3,500 people are now known to have died and many more remain unaccounted for. Ninety-one countries have offered aid ranging from blankets, to search dogs and military transport aircraft.

Here is a time-lapse animation of the aftershocks since March 11th... some reports stating more than 275 aftershocks...

Link

 

[Alan]

To be honest, no country... and hardly any person is honest up front that they "fucked up" or swallow their pride and admit their screw'd right off the bat. Pride and fear of embarrassment/failure is a common trait among everyone. And the Japanese are mayhap among the last that want to admit failure in handling a situation. Even one on this type of scale.

Also if anyone sees this freakin thing... Link

While I agree that no one wants to admit it, you have to weigh the good of yourself vs. the good of your country. Obfuscating like this has only harmed both self and country, and put the country and surrounding territories at major risk.

As for the image, that's been around since problems with Dai-Ichi were first announced, Friday afternoon. It was merely what a Chernobyl-like situation (complete core meltdowns, without containment intact) would have been like, at the weather conditions at the time. It's good for historical purposes, but not much else anymore. This is because we know a lot more now about the facility, and the damage it has incurred, since the problems first arose.

Anyone taking this thing seriously at this point needs to give their head a shake.

 

[Woodrat]

Well, it was kinda an example of how people are taking talking points like that seriously. Almost complete panic over the notion that we're (those on the west coast are going to be horribly affected by it.

I saw it long before as well, about the time the first reactor blew its top.

As for news... rather quiet all of a sudden... Only report is that Japan is asking the US Military for help at Fukushima #1 NPS

 

[Alan]

As for news... rather quiet all of a sudden... Only report is that Japan is asking the US Military for help at Fukushima #1 NPS

I just saw this as well. The question is, does the US Military have anyone in Japan, at present, who can handle this sort of environment? Or, at the very least, anyone who can get there quickly? With radiation levels reaching 2mSv... I mean, hell, I feel nauseous just thinking about that sort of radiation level over a sustained period of time.

Aside from reports of a new aftershock off the coast of Chiba measuring 6.0 in magnitude, I haven't heard anything.

 

[Woodrat]

Not sure... I'm guessing manpower and equipment. Not sure on what type of folks the U.S. military has in terms of Nuclear Powerplant specialists. At one point it was 11mSv ... half of the 20mSv that a NPS worker usually gets per year.

Aside from the aftershock that you meintioned that swayed buildings in Tokyo. Reuters reports

Workers ordered to leave the quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant were allowed back in after radiation levels fell

Kyodo news agency reports that...

The Japanese government is ready to release rice stockpiles wherever needed, the country's farm minister is quoted as saying

 

[Alan]

As per FoxNews corespondent Adam Housley, citing Tokyo Power:

Fukushima plant was never abandoned. Workers outside were told to take cover indoors, but never left - TEPCO

Take that as you will. If true, it's good news indeed.

 

[Alan]

As per Al Jazeera English's live blog,

12:00am(sic; should be pm, as they are posting times at GMT+9)



Yukio Edano, the chief cabinet secretary, held a brief conference about the nuclear situation, these are the key points.

- An appeal not to panic buy fuel especially in areas not affected by the quake, they think the containment vessel on Reactor No3 has been damaged

- Radioaction levels have fluctuated throughout the day, at one point all staff were evacuated for safety due to a dramtic increase in radiation at the front gate.

- Tempratures are rising in reactors number 5/6 and in the spent fuel rod tank in reactor no 4.

- They are considering the option of spraying water onto the heating reactors from the air.There are issues getting water into Reactor numbe 4 containment pool.

 

[Woodrat]

Well... either there is a rather large miscommunication between the Japanese Goverment and TEPCO (which would not be suprising considering how this keeps changing on a hour by hour basis) or FoxNews got it wrong (would not be suprisng, I'm not even checking them for information) or several other news sites got it wrong. Once again not suprising if that was the case, since events keep changing and it's hard to get any reliable and clear information.

I got the workers evac from the BBC Twitter and news of their return on Reuters so... *shrug* who knows. Fox might be right for once, I'm not sure.

Anyway, according to Reuters TEPCO is building a road to Fukushima Daiichi #4 reactor. This is to allow firetrucks access... which means that there are going to be a few more folks going into the danger zone.

Also...

0433: France is now urging its nationals in Tokyo to leave Japan or head to the south of the country, Reuters reports. It says Paris has asked the Air France carrier to provide planes for the evacuation.

There is a joke about the cowardice of France in here somewhere... but I'm just not in the mood to say it. It makes sense that folks that want out should get out.

 

[Woodrat]

Doublepost....

Well in an effort to be less transparent... Reuters Live, one of the comments... not sure how valid it is.

TEPCO has removed public access to a webcam showing the Fukoshima reactors. Now a password is needed in order to observe the complex.
comment by Tim Childers at 9:51 PM

If that's the case then hell... I cannot find anything to confirm that however, so take it at face value.

On a different note,

Linky

Link shows the position and mag of all of the Earthquakes/aftershocks in the past week... all 497 of them. Including 27 earthquakes from before the 9.0 on March 11th

Linky

Shows the mag and location and time of each earthquake in the area. Those in red are 6.0 and higer.

Out of curiosity, how many Iwakuians are following this? Kinda curious if I'm just talking to Alan and myself or something...

 

[Alan]

I wouldn't be surprised, regarding Fox; alas, it was something that was re-tweeted. I checked to make sure I was attributing it to the right source.

Other than that, I don't personally check Fox either. I'm sticking with Japanese media, or objective world media sources.

Also not surprised about France. I imagine more countries will follow suit, regardless of any French jokes that may ensue.

Not seeing any new Japan news. Bahrain, however... well, that's for a different thread altogether.

 

[Alan]

As per Al Jazeera's live blog:

2:24pm (1:28am EDT)

Japan has ordered workers to leave the Fukushima nuclear plant as radiation rises to dangerous levels.

The station has seen a series of explosions following Friday's earthquake and tsunami.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78481.html

URGENT: Radiation briefly topped 10 millisievert at Fukushima plant
TOKYO, March 16, Kyodo

The radiation level at the quake-hit Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant reached 10 millisievert per hour at one point Wednesday morning, possibly due to the damage at its No.2 reactor the day before, the government's nuclear safety agency said.


The maximum level was measured at the plant's front gate at 10:40 a.m. It fell to 6.4 millisievert at 10:45 a.m. and to 2.3 millisievert at 10:54 a.m. but rose again to about 3.4 millisievert as of 11:00 a.m., the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.


==Kyodo

 

[Alan]

Here's a piece of good (well, happy, anyway) news:

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78613.html

Indonesian family donates $782,000 to Japanese quake victims

SINGAPORE, March 16, Kyodo

A wealthy Indonesian family that owns a coal mining company in Indonesia donated on Wednesday S$1 million (about US$782,000) to the Japanese Embassy in Singapore to help the victims of the earthquake and tsunami disaster in Japan.

Elaine Low, 24, daughter of Low Tuck Kwong, owner of PT Bayan Resources, handed a check for the amount to Japanese Ambassador in Singapore Yoichi Suzuki.

The U.S. magazine Forbes ranks Low the third richest Indonesian, with assets worth $3.6 billion this year.

The Low family has many friends in Japan and fond memories of Japan's Tohoku region, one of the regions worst hit by the magnitude 9.0 earthquake and ensuing tsunami.

==Kyodo

 

[Torsty]

Originally Posted by Woodrat
To be honest, no country... and hardly any person is honest up front that they "fucked up" or swallow their pride and admit their screw'd right off the bat. Pride and fear of embarrassment/failure is a common trait among everyone. And the Japanese are mayhap among the last that want to admit failure in handling a situation. Even one on this type of scale.

Also if anyone sees this freakin thing... Link

While I agree that no one wants to admit it, you have to weigh the good of yourself vs. the good of your country. Obfuscating like this has only harmed both self and country, and put the country and surrounding territories at major risk.

http://www.freewebs.com/houseeverybodylies/everybody-lies.JPG

I'm following, though I check the national-news here also since I consider them pretty good at giving reports that gives a more well-rounded picture of the whole situation.

 

[Alan]

This is a good point raised by one of the nuclear scientists Al Jazeera has been corresponding with recently. He raised a point of the seawater being used to cool the reactors currently. His question: Where is it all going? What's happening to it?

My completely uneducated guess, from thousands of miles away, would be that this seawater being used is turning to steam. However, that would indicate that the seawater is having no effect in cooling the reactors at all. I'm not sure that's the case, but we really don't know.

No print article available.

Also being mentioned, is that the water in Fukushima has traces of radiation detected, albeit those radiation traces are under the allowable limit.

And finally (from the AJE live blog), as a result of the nuclear crisis in Fukushima...

10:16am (sic; pm, not am)

China is suspending its development of nuclear power plants amid rising public anxiety. As the country's economy develops rapidly, nuclear power had been seen as key to delivering the nation's energy infrastructure.
Some 28 reactors - or 40 per cent of the world's total under construction - are being built in China. The country's current capacity is 10.8 gigawatts, though analysts expected a target of up to 80GW in the coutnry's new five-year plan due at the end of this month.

 

[Cosmic Orion]

So are other countries taking this long to step in cause they're waiting to be ASKED, can't DECIDE on their own if they want to help, or just want to see this whole thing somehow get even WORSE?

 

[Alan]

On the Nuclear side of things, there are a lot of countries who are already assisting, including the US. The US had been trying to do whatever they could since the nuclear plant became a problem.

Japan, and Tokyo Power, have asked the US specifically if they can assist directly to help cool the reactors and prevent a core meltdown. Six reactors means there are six cores that can meltdown. Word coming in now say that water temperatures in reactors 5 and 6 have reached 85C, or about twice the temperature they should be. It's also been stated that spent fuel rods in reactor 3 are now exposed as well, and radioactive steam is starting to rise from them.

The question, at this point, is if there's anyone in the armed forces stationed in Japan that can help. A catastrophe must be prevented any way possible.

 

[Cosmic Orion]

I guess given the news I'd heard, other than trying to keep up with you and all the other guys updates in this thread, it sounded like only the USA was really helping. And then I noticed the French today after I caught up on this thread. But other than that I hadn't heard a whole lot else. Thanks for clearing that up for me.