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Possibly yes, a perpetual motion machine can be/may be existant, if someone with the right material and experience (possibly even things with properties unknown to the general public) made one, I wouldn't say it's impossible, but so far it hasn't been achieved with what we currently know of at the moment, so perhaps it requires some out of the box thinking? Another thing that could make something like this seem more likely would be the discovery of new alloys, and/or other resources/material not neccessarily from this world. Another thing to factor in is which things would truly be considered perpetual motion, since someone could invent something that could stay in "constant" motion, but is gradually slowing down slow enough that the change is just barely noticed (Earths seemingly perpetual motion is one example; even if it seems to be rotating at a constant rate, it's slowly, but surely slowing down). Bottom line; (If you don't mind the wall of text) free energy, and/or perpetual motion machines may be able to be achieved some day (if not already).
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Hisoka
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My biggest issue with the whole idea of a forever machine is the very concept of infinity. A machine is a complicated arrangement of various things, various moving things. Exactly how would one ensure that the constant state of motion does not simply after a period of time cause a complete failure of the moving parts. After all wear and tear will destroy anything given enough time.
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Hisoka
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Well as the old saying goes you go to war with the army you have not the army you want.
Though anything that promises to get rid of fossil fuel is good in my books.
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Fijoli
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Exactly, the universe can't even keep galaxys going forever. XD
But what about Free Energy??
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I'm a science man. There are two issues here.
- Perpetual motion machines can exist. You need a machine that can operate at 100% efficiency - all the energy in the system is conserved forever and isn't lost to friction, heat, vibrations, light, etc. You are extremely unlikely to ever build one.
- There's no free lunch. If a perpetual motion machine was over unity efficiency it would produce energy out of nowhere. Free energy is a bit of a paradox to me. Say you could build a machine that could produce free energy, considering all losses to friction and heat. But your perpetual motion machine is already 100% efficient: it has no losses. So why would it produce a little extra free energy and stop there? It should produce enough energy to ignite the Earth and turn it into the Sun.
- Perpetual motion machines can exist. You need a machine that can operate at 100% efficiency - all the energy in the system is conserved forever and isn't lost to friction, heat, vibrations, light, etc. You are extremely unlikely to ever build one.
- There's no free lunch. If a perpetual motion machine was over unity efficiency it would produce energy out of nowhere. Free energy is a bit of a paradox to me. Say you could build a machine that could produce free energy, considering all losses to friction and heat. But your perpetual motion machine is already 100% efficient: it has no losses. So why would it produce a little extra free energy and stop there? It should produce enough energy to ignite the Earth and turn it into the Sun.
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Hisoka
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A friction free device seems hard to understand. I mean no matter how many times you divide something you're never going to reach zero. With that in mind how would you reduce friction to a nonentity?
Oh my sweet and various gods is this such stupid conspiracy theorizing mindless sensationalism. Do you really think that mainstream science is right? Couldn't it be that the truth is being suppressed? If you really think about it for once, could it be so impossible? Yes, no, yes. Don't actually supply any answers, don't back yourself up with any facts, just make wild claims and then say that you can't say more because the truth is being suppressed but if people just think long enough to consider your position but not long enough to realize that all you've done is talk out of your rear end maybe they can find the truth.
And saying to think outside the box or with future materials doesn't help. If you're saying "Well it can be true if we don't limit ourselves to what we have now" then you're basically just writing science fiction. Go ahead and say that you want to join Asimov and Clarke.
And saying to think outside the box or with future materials doesn't help. If you're saying "Well it can be true if we don't limit ourselves to what we have now" then you're basically just writing science fiction. Go ahead and say that you want to join Asimov and Clarke.
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Speaking of real science...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Let's say we do get something in perpetual motion. It can't produce any more energy than it took to make it work in the first place- right?
So, let's say that you get a perpetual wheel spinning. Well, unless it can transfer the energy of the wheel to, say, a light bulb, it's useless. Because collecting the energy of motion will almost certainly require friction, right?
Or let's say it turns heat to mechanical energy. For all we know, it's going to pretty much become a black hole and suck all heat energy it can reach into it- so yeah, it's perpetually moving, but Earth and everything around us is frozen solid with zero heat energy. We did it, but we're dead.
The idea of perpetual motion is highly unlikely. The idea that we could actually generate unlimited free energy from it, well, that's kind of dumb. I think our odds of finding sustainable unicorn power are probably higher.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Let's say we do get something in perpetual motion. It can't produce any more energy than it took to make it work in the first place- right?
So, let's say that you get a perpetual wheel spinning. Well, unless it can transfer the energy of the wheel to, say, a light bulb, it's useless. Because collecting the energy of motion will almost certainly require friction, right?
Or let's say it turns heat to mechanical energy. For all we know, it's going to pretty much become a black hole and suck all heat energy it can reach into it- so yeah, it's perpetually moving, but Earth and everything around us is frozen solid with zero heat energy. We did it, but we're dead.
The idea of perpetual motion is highly unlikely. The idea that we could actually generate unlimited free energy from it, well, that's kind of dumb. I think our odds of finding sustainable unicorn power are probably higher.
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Lady B
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Pfft, we don't need any perpetuum mobiles when we have human emotions!
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Lady B
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Damn it, QB, the Heat Death of the universe is so far away, I'm not sure why you'd need to care about it. And that assumes that the universe is "open" and will never see a "Big Crunch" and then a fresh big bang, running it all in a nice, big cycle. For that matter I actually think witches likely exist because you can't just give thermodynamics the middle finger, so they're some sort of manifestation of entropy within the magical girl system...
Anyway, my two cents on this stuff: it flies in the face of science, and that's never a good thing. I'll concede that it's certainly possible, but highly improbable, to make something which will "run" forever once set in motion. Of course, if it can interact with its environment, that makes things really difficult on the poor perpetual motion machine. And even then, it'd be a curiosity. It can't do any work, because while it'll run forever, if we try to take energy back out of it, it'll stop.
Basically, what other people have said. As for "free" energy, ain't no such thing as a free lunch thanks to conservation laws. If you're getting energy, it has to come from somewhere (other forms of energy, previously done work stored away, matter, the emotions of preteen human girls, whatever).
Anyway, my two cents on this stuff: it flies in the face of science, and that's never a good thing. I'll concede that it's certainly possible, but highly improbable, to make something which will "run" forever once set in motion. Of course, if it can interact with its environment, that makes things really difficult on the poor perpetual motion machine. And even then, it'd be a curiosity. It can't do any work, because while it'll run forever, if we try to take energy back out of it, it'll stop.
Basically, what other people have said. As for "free" energy, ain't no such thing as a free lunch thanks to conservation laws. If you're getting energy, it has to come from somewhere (other forms of energy, previously done work stored away, matter, the emotions of preteen human girls, whatever).
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heliacalRebirth
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It would not be impossible to make on Mars.
I will leave it at that so I don't explode this conversation with words.
I will leave it at that so I don't explode this conversation with words.
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