Operation KKK

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SacredWarrior

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So the "hacktivist" group known as Anonymous is planning something called Operation KKK where they'll reveal the identities of 1,000 KKK members on the 1 year anniversary of the Ferguson protests which was November 24th. They're also aiming to shut down websites and other social media accounts affiliated with the KKK.

Keep in mind that this is the same group that was behind the Ashley Madison scandal.

Here are my thoughts on this:

 
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Dervish

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Oh no, not the Kool Kolored Kidz!
 
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SacredWarrior

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The KKK finally might get some mainstream media attention after years of being ignored.

 
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Vio

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They're also aiming to shut down websites and other social media accounts affiliated with the KKK.
This is good! This is very progressive and I hope something like this actually happens.

they'll reveal the identities of 1,000 KKK members
This I don't believe is as.....well...it can be a good thing and a bad thing. Yeah they are scum of the earth, but this can potentially put their lives at risk. Yeah they are a shitty group of people, but they haven't had any really real publicity since like forever, so attacking them will only just stir up trouble that nobody fucking wants. Also hacking is ILLEGAL, so I don't think it is wise to encourage such.....actions.

Whats the ashley madison scandal? o-o
 

SacredWarrior

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This is good! This is very progressive and I hope something like this actually happens.


This I don't believe is as.....well...it can be a good thing and a bad thing. Yeah they are scum of the earth, but this can potentially put their lives at risk. Yeah they are a shitty group of people, but they haven't had any really real publicity since like forever, so attacking them will only just stir up trouble that nobody fucking wants. Also hacking is ILLEGAL, so I don't think it is wise to encourage such.....actions.

Whats the ashley madison scandal? o-o
Wow you really have been living under a rock O_O There was a huge hacking incident at Ashley Madison (an dating website for extramarital affairs) and many people got exposed for being members, including the absolutely horrendous Josh Duggar. Some people even committed suicide over it from what I heard.
 
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Dervish

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This is good! This is very progressive and I hope something like this actually happens.


This I don't believe is as.....well...it can be a good thing and a bad thing. Yeah they are scum of the earth, but this can potentially put their lives at risk. Yeah they are a shitty group of people, but they haven't had any really real publicity since like forever, so attacking them will only just stir up trouble that nobody fucking wants. Also hacking is ILLEGAL, so I don't think it is wise to encourage such.....actions.

Whats the ashley madison scandal? o-o
I can answer that!

Ashley Madison is an infamous website where people can sign up to start affairs. Obviously, it's for people who want to cheat without their significant others finding out.

So this year, Anonymous leaked the credit card information and identities of tens of thousands of Ashley Madison users and turned up some pretty big names, including a particular douchebag who belongs to one of those really awful anti-choice and anti-gay and anti-abortion guys who have a huge following on social media and television preaching their bigoted shit and traditional family values and blagh blagh blagh. Anyways, captain hypocrite turned out having an account and utterly deep sixed his reputation.

Hard to preach about gays destroying marriage when you're multikilling multiple vaginas.
 

Vio

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Thank you! Yeah I have heard of that actually, but I totally forgot about it since I don't give a damn about the affairs of people I don't know. :DD

Still...hacking is illegal. Adultery is not. People want to go and ruin their marriage then have at it! Ain't my life. Lol

This is a bit off topic though. As I said before, I hope they do shut down those sites :0
 

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It could potentially put their lives at danger, and bring attention to a group that has been mostly ignored for quite some time (which is, honestly, the only way to truly get a movement like that to die. Eventually). On the other hand, plenty of people would claim that they deserve it.

I guess that's why vigilantism is a bit morally grey.
 
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Gwazi Magnum

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The Krazy Kuilting Klub?
 

Sen

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Was Anon also the ones who found an entire list of pedophiles using questionable sites???
 

Jorick

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Y'know, as shitty as the KKK and their views are, this is fucked up and not okay.

First there's the revealing people's identities thing. Doxxing people is a garbage thing to do, doesn't matter who it's being done to. You're basically inviting crazy assholes from the internet to do bad things (up to and including murder, as unlikely as that is) to someone because you don't agree with their views. As a firm proponent of both online anonymity and freedom of speech everywhere, I find the whole "we're going to leak their personal details online because we don't like them" thing to be morally repugnant.

Shutting down websites and accounts is also fucking stupid. It doesn't matter how ass backwards someone's opinions and beliefs are, I'm one of those free speech guys who thinks everyone should be allowed to say whatever crap they want so long as they're not inciting actual violence. Saying you hate some group of people because of so-and-so stereotypes is something that should be completely protected free speech. Shutting down sites and accounts is an attempt to censor them, and honestly censorship-pushing assholes are a bigger threat to society than some racist numbnuts.

This is some petty, underhanded shit. It's not going to do anything to stop or reduce racist nonsense, it's only going to put some people in danger because they hold unpopular views. If you think their views are so terrible then you should be arguing against them to show how stupid and wrong they are, not threatening them into silence.
 

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I kinda lean towards Jorick's POV. D: I love the idea of holding people accountable for harmful beliefs and behaviors, but the collateral damages that come with publicly sharing that kind of information as a checklist of "bad people" is very high. Cause you're not just hitting the name that's listed. You're hitting EVERYONE in their family and social circle too.

Imagine the poor kid whose dad is on the list. The kid doesn't agree with their dad at ALL, but now peeps at school are harassing them because their dad is now a famous racist douchebag. @___@ We WANT to think they won't bully the kid because their dad is a douche, but that's not how things work in reality. Everyone always does the guilty by association thing.

And that doesn't even count the crazies that do really harmful things. O_O Like getting people fired, destroying their finances, potentially actually attacking someone...
 

Astaroth

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Exposing people who are already in the public eye- like Josh Duggar or the other celebs who were on that list- is one thing. Those people have already voluntarily called attention to themselves, and especially in the case of politicians are up for public discussion of their private lives when it renders their legislation or public opinions hypocritical. Like the guy advocating the legislation of "family values" (read: no gay people) having extramarital affairs? Yeah, people should bring that up.

Exposing the everyday person? NOT OKAY, for reasons others like Jorick or Brovo or Diana have pointed out. It doesn't matter what you think they deserve. You're not a god and you have no business setting people up for suicide or murder or other terrible shit. That makes you just as shitty as they are, if not more (especially if they're not trying to kill/get people killed).

Are these people awful? Maybe. Do they believe or do awful things? Absolutely. But when the fuck did people forget that two wrongs don't make a right?

I'm not even sure which is a worse case. The Ashley Madison situation may have actually done some good because it was a big and booming business before the hack. Meanwhile, the KKK is sort of dated and sad and doesn't really accomplish much. On the other hand, being a racist dickweed is a prerequisite for joining the KKK, but being on Ashley Madison doesn't automatically make you a douche; people forget that some members were on that site with their spouse's FULL KNOWLEDGE because open marriages or polyamory or swinging or etc. are real things, and those people's lives got ruined right alongside the actual cheaters. (Doesn't matter if you think those relationship types are good. Point is no one was getting lied to and so it's nobody's business but the spouses'.)

I wish they would just try to shut down some of the hate sites rather than pull this doxxing bullshit. I believe that people have a right to have terrible and offensive opinions and talk about them as long as it's not provoking anyone, but at least shutting down sites doesn't incite violence.
 
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Alan

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It's fun to think about, no? Holding people accountable for doing stupid, or even harmful things to others in the world. I'm all for accountability.

Ths problem is, this approach can also be seen as stupid and harmful. It's the kind of thing that can destroy lives. The Ashley Madison thing was "all fun and games" until people started commiting suicide over it. Even in the (vast majority of) cases where suicide didn't happen, it still tore families apart. We could argue endlessly about what behavior was most harmful, the people who signed up for an affairs website, or the people who exposed the millions of people who did so.

Such a public reveal can have lasting effects, and not in a good way.

I am no fan of the KKK, but this is the wrong approach to take. This won't end well.
 

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This is vigilantism, which is a very, very, very dangerous thing.
Especially for the vigilante(s). If these people ever pissed off someone with the resources to hack back- which is not entirely implausible- they could wind up getting doxxed themselves. And then every single person they've pissed off or made miserable is going to know who they are.

Not just the racists or the cheaters.

Maybe it's the spouse or the child of one of the suicide cases. Someone with a strong motive for revenge.

They better pray they get arrested for hacking before anyone else gets to them, honestly.
 

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Privacy is important, mmmkay.
 

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It doesn't matter what you think they deserve. You're not a god and you have no business setting people up for suicide or murder or other terrible shit.
Also keep in mind that this is how one creates a martyrdom. The more restrictions and attempts you make to purge a group of people, the harder they fight back, and the more you validate their world view. This is why nobody advocates purging crazy idiots like Flat Earthers or Creationists: Martyring them just makes them stronger in the end. The only way to truly kill an idea is to leave it to flounder in the marketplace of ideas, untended, ignored, and mocked at every opportunity. Not by specifically drawing attention to it.

This kind of public shaming only brings attention to the KKK, and folks in Hollywood have a saying for this: "All publicity is good publicity." The more people hear about the KKK, the more potential recruits they have. Even if it's 1 out of every 1,000.

The only time this works is if a bad idea has rooted itself so firmly and extremely that it starts wielding violent ends to achieve its desires, like the KKK of the past which ran around hanging blacks. They finally started getting busted for it and were forced to fuck right off to their little hate hole to die. We should leave them there to die or reform as they decide, not keep trying to punish them for wrong think. Because while I consciously know that what they believe is wrong, they're never going to change by force. You can't change people by force, it doesn't work. Also, you know, slippery slope and all that jazz. It's easy to start with the KKK. It'll get less amusing when it eventually spirals out to hurt other people.

This is just Anonymous looking for free, easy public opinion points. The sad part is, because everyone hates the KKK, it's going to work. Which amuses me immensely. Because who really believed we grew past the Crusades and the Inquisition and Jihads? People want their blood sacrifices to the holy alter of righteousness. They're gonna get em', one way or another. :ferret:
 

Tegan

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And a single person (or a group of 'hacktivists', in this case) cannot be judge, jury, and executioner. There is nothing illegal about being a member of the KKK, as unsavory an organization it is, and if the members are not committing any crimes, then their privacy should be respected. The earliest drafts of the Constitution and Bill of Rights took great care to set up a due process system that prohibited public shaming and self-incrimination because it was literally ruining people's lives forever in Europe.

This was my same argument to those accusing people like Anita Sarkeesian* of faking her abuse. An ordinary person who is in no way involved in that person's life could not possibly know what is actually happening and is only operating on hearsay and conjecture. No evidence? No official legal investigation that proves otherwise? Sorry, that's participating in public hysteria that fuels acts of vigilantism that completely undermines an entire judicial system. Yes, said system can be incredibly corrupt and biased, but I would prefer it any day to someone who thinks they have the right to pass judgement on another arbitrarily.

If these 'hacktivists' want to do something worthwhile, they could use their talents to help find missing persons, provide security for non-profits, and so on. Not shit all over some random person's life because they're having an affair or are part of a racist organization.


*It's just an example kids, let's keep it on topic.
 
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