Occupy Wall Street Protests!

[Diana]

I'm reading and following avidly. D: It's one of the few things I am actually very interested in.

 

[Sarah]

I had typed out a long monologue as to why I'm against these protests... however, I'm not looking to make enemies and I typically do when it comes to things like this. So, I'm going to resort to trying to come off as noncombatant as possible.

As much as I am for the right to assemble, I find a large percentage of these protesters to be either greatly misinformed or misguided. I do not think that it is right that a lot of these occupy protests are hindering the lives of every day citizens. I also do not appreciate that, at least some of the Occupy protests in Florida, are allowed to go on without permits when all of the protests I have participated in were forced to get them, lest we be arrested.
I do not agree with most of the things that I have heard from them, and I find the protesters to be extremely hypocritical, especially pertaining to their opinions on corporations.

I've seen footage of these protests. Almost everything owned by these people is made corporations. From their iPhones to the clothes on their backs. If one really wishes to protest corporatism, would it not be best to NOT be buying the products of corporations? Jussayin'.

---The above is probably 300% nicer than my original rant.

 

[October Knight]

They are protesting here in Santa Rosa, California. However, I think their goals are a little too broad to be taken seriously. Last time I drove through down town there was a bunch of people with signs on the steps of city hall, but I failed to get a unified message from them. Some of the people had signs that said 'Down with big banks' and the 99% deal, but the majority of them seemed to just be there, protesting different types of things having little to do with any one thing.

As for myself? I dislike how the American Government operates, I do not trust them. I also feel that our country is headed down the toilet, I fit in more with the 53%ers though. Work hard, stay focused and quit bitchen. Lots of people have it worse than you!

 

[Sarah]

Aha, your point reminds me of an interview my dad showed me of a few of the protesters on Wall Street.
Some woman was literally only protesting because she didn't like her boss.

I'm really glad I'm not the only one that can't take them seriously as protesters.

That being said, I can't completely agree with the "quit yer bitchin".
Nothing is ever solved by ignoring it. Sometimes, you have to bitch as loudly as possible until someone hears you. Nothing can be solved by ignoring the issues and being satisfied with the fact that "it could be worse". That mentality is kind of what allows the American people to get kicked around by the government that's supposed to work for us.



Still not trying to make enemies. Probably failing... can't stop typing...

 

[Diana]

To reply to Sarah, most of the protesters are NOT against Corporations in the sense that they think they shouldn't exist, should give away all their money, get taxed more, etc. That would be stupid. VERY stupid. (And the people that do believe that are definitely the uneducated ones.) We NEED the jobs provided from those corporations, and they do provide us with excellent products to make our lives better.

The whole 99% movement is about stopping those corporations from running our -government-. For the past 20+ years the CEOs and owners of these businesses have been stealing money from their own companies, paying their employees less and less. Bribing and paying off our government to remove or change laws in THEIR favor. Getting bailouts to "save their business" and not even putting that money in TO the business.

Meanwhile the rest of America (and other countries too! it's a worldwide problem!) are losing their jobs because these same companies "can't afford" to pay them. They're getting paid LESS because wages and minimum wage has dropped. Their benefits are being taken away. They have to work MORE hours WITH this less pay. Many companies are even forcing their employees to work these extra hours or run the risk of getting fired. And the laws are protecting these companies instead of the people that are working in them.

Then people want to say "Oh just go to school and get a better job." But how many people are actually successfully able to do that now? School costs are INSANE. You need a job to be able to pay for your school. But you can't get a good job without a degree. You can't even count on government grants for education anymore, because the government is giving all their money away to Bailouts they can't afford, and cutting the GOOD programs out of the equation.


It's all about government reform. >:[ Our government is broken because it's bought and paid for by the people who have loads of cash to throw at it. The American government was born because the -people- wanted to be the ones that made the laws, voted, and did what was right for the majority of the country. But you very clearly see that this hasn't been happening for a long time now.




...I ranted a bit. c__c The whole "of they hate corporations then why are they using corporate stuff?" always irks me. Cause that's not what the battle is about. That's the spin media and in-pocket politicians use to make the protesters look like unwashed stupid hypocritical hippies and discredit the real purpose of the movement. ><

 

[Sarah]

I've talked to some of the Occupiers, and they have literally said that they "feel that corporations should not exist."
Literally. Word for word. That is what they said. Verbatim.
(Occupy St Pete, the people there... argh...)

Where are you getting that minimum wage has dropped from? I know it raised twice in the short time I've been working.
And every time minimum wage rises, the cost of living rises too.
And, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that anything constituting overtime (more than forty hours) is time and a half at most places.

The problem isn't corporations. The problem doesn't stem from them. It stems from the government sticking their hands into the pockets of the people who run those corporations and their employees.

The way taxes are done in this country make absolutely no sense to me.
My dad got a small raise this year that put him up a tax bracket. And reduced his return by $2000.
He works hard for his money, always has, and probably will die working. It's not fair that just because he makes more working as hard as he does, he should be penalized. I agree with the fact that this government is corrupt, however I do not agree with the ideas that most of these people seem to have to "better" our country.

Seriously, I've been protesting for government reform for the past five years (since I was thirteen, dammit).
I know all about not liking the way things are run. I know all about trying to change it.
I'm not JUST NOW getting into politics since I'm old enough to vote.

Basically, what my overly caffeinated mind is attempting to say is that, I don't blame the corporations; I blame the government. I also blame the past generations who sat idly by while things got this bad.
That's just me though.

 

[MurderDeathKill]

NIIIIIICE going, OPD.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/iraq-vet-oakland-police-tear-gas_n_1033159.html

The local police's use of force seriously injured an Occupy activist and Iraq War veteran.

Scott Olsen, 24, remains sedated on a respirator, in stable but critical condition at Oakland's Highland Hospital after being hit in the head with a police projectile.

 

[Diana]

Can't judge a whole movement by the few idiots that show up and dun know what they're talking about though. D: There's a few hundred thousand people involved in cities all over the world now, and I know not all of them can be blithering idiots like that. XD

MOST of the people are looking for Government reform, not total murder on corporations. D:


And the problem is that we've all known the Government has been corrupt for a very long time. (no one disagrees there), but who RUNS this corrupt government? That'd be those super rich people with all the money to buy their positions or to pay off the people in those positions.


And I definitely agree that the tax system is stupid. >< I don't think people who get paid more should pay more taxes. The government just needs to stop wasting our tax money on stupid crap, when it's supposed to go towards Education, Healthcare, Etc...

 

[Woodrat]

One issue the movement has is that there is no organization. There is no unified voice of demands really. They all have different ideas on what is right and wrong and should be done about it. These demonstrators range from your middle aged man who just wants a job to some new age flower child. So saying they all want to destroy the corporations is a silly generalization. It's like generalizing that everyone that is a socialist or a communist is a pinko American hater who wants to bring us under a Stalinist rule.

Of course this raises the issue of what their message is, since they can't even really agree on it. Then again each occupy movement also appears to have its own flavor of demands and issues. The ones in your state could be radically different than the ones in mine. The one overall message seems to be a seperation between corporations and government, and to make the 1% accountable for the outragous amounts of money that they receive each year through tax loopholes, bonuses, or the lack of tax in general. There also seems to be a movement in some areas for a return of jobs.

I know that the nearest occupy movement to my location has union workers throwing their support behind it. It isn't simply because they say down with corporations. They just want jobs, they want decent benifits, they want a decent and sustainable wage.

Anywho some slightly related pictures and such...

spoiler

story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtTW72F8xo0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I close by telling you a simple little story that I have often told my friends in British Columbia. I sat in the House of Commons for some years and my desk mate was a big husky miner from Caper Breton Island, Clary Gillis who went to work when he was 13 years of age and worked all his life in the coalmines until he came to Parliament. And Clary used to tell an interesting little story when he was trying to illustrate what I have been trying to say. He used to tell the story of Mouse Land: Mouse Land was a quiet place where all the little mice lived and they were very much like people. They had their good days and their bad days. Just like the rest of us, they had a tough time making a living. They were like us in other respects, too. They had a parliament and a government in Mouse Land. And On election day all the little mice used to tog to the polls. They used to elect a government of -big, fat black cats. Now, you might think it strange that mice would have government of cats. But if you take a look at Canada and the United States over a period of years, you will not see that mice are any stupider than men. I don't want you to think that these black cats were very nasty or dirty cats. They were very nice cats. Very clean. Very circumspect. And they gave good government. They passed good laws-good laws for cats. One of the laws they passed that a mouse hole had to be big enough so that a cat could get his paw in! They passed another law to say that in the mornings mice could only travel at a certain speed, so a cat could get his breakfast without too much trouble and. All the laws that the cats passed were good laws. They were good for cats, but, oh they were tough on the mice! And the mice kept getting fewer and fewer in number, and were fed up with it. So they said: "We have had enough of this." And the next election they went to the polls and they threw the black cats out and they put the white cats in!(Laughter and applause) The white cats of course, had put on a terrific campaign-television, radio, and billposters. And the white cats said, "The trouble with Mouse Land lies in those mouse holes. Those round mouse holes. They are no good. We should have square mouse holes." And when they got in, they kept their promise. They put in square mouse holes. The square mouse holes were twice as big as the round mouse hole, and now a cat could get both his paw in. And more mice disappeared than ever. So the next election they went back to black cats They could not stand them any more and so they went back to white cats -. Then the black cats, then the white cats, And one time they even tried a government of half white cats and half black cats, It didn't make a bit of difference. Their trouble wasn't whether they were black, or white. Their trouble was that they were cats. Well, there was one little guy who had an idea, and he got on the soapbox and he said: "Look, fellow mice! Why do we want to keep having a government of cats?" "Why don't we have a government of mice?" "Oh," they said, "He's a Bolshevik! Lock him up! Lock him up!" And they locked him up and they kept him there, and he died. But I want to remind you, you can kill mice and you can kill men-but you can't kill and idea.

53% Opinion Article Biased against

The name itself is part of the problem. 53% percent refers to some (relatively) specious numbers about how many Americans actually pay income taxes. The response to the "Occupy" guys (and essentially the entire realm of progressive-taxation) that's gaining popularity is pointing to the fact that so many people don't pay any income taxes. The problem they say, is that the top 3% of income earners make up about 50% of federal tax revenue. The problem isn't that 400 people have as much combined net worth as the bottom 150 million (which helps explain that federal-revenue disparity), but that those 150 million aren't paying their fair share.

Of course, this completely ignores that most of that 47% are people who have no income and never would (prisoners, the disabled, work-age minors, the early-retired, stay at home parents), people actively looking for jobs and not finding any (officially 9.1%), and people who do have jobs, but make so little money they either don't qualify for the lowest income bracket or qualify for enough tax credits that they wind up owing nothing (including about 1470 millionaires). Never mind that they still pay Medicare and Social Security taxes, state income taxes, property and sales taxes, and government fees.

Charitably, it's a belief that the real problem in the American tax structure is that we aren't trying hard enough to squeeze blood from a stone. My opinion, is that they're the same old know-nothings who believe working their asses off for no recognition or proper reward or basic civil entitlements is the "honorable" way of life, and anyone who doesn't is as good as criminal, and have no real concept of how an economy works and can't fathom why 9+% of the population can't find a job like they did.

And people like its founder. It started with this guy Steve Doocy, who made that Tumblr (I believe his picture is still at the first entry), wherein he says he has "three jobs" and complains about housing prices and such. His three "jobs" are a blog, a radio show, and being a Fox commentator, which you can imagine pays pretty well.

'course the 99% imagines might have a bit of this as well. But this has occured at least once and was caught with the 53% images.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/15/1026620/-We-Are-the-53-is-Using-Fake-Images

spoiler

Income for top one percent 'grew by 275 percent'
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141732716

-- More about Oakland --

Mayor of Oakland
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/26/BAMD1LMMA0.DTL

Are Crackdowns A Turning Point For Occupy Protests?
http://www.npr.org/2011/10/26/141733471/are-crackdowns-a-turning-point-for-occupy-protests

Occupy Oakland protesters tear down fence but police stay away (image links in the article)
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/occu.html

"We received a request from US law enforcement to remove YouTube videos of police brutality."
http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests/US/?p=2011-06

 

[Fel of the Eternal Forest]

Hi, Sarah. You met an idiot, or in the real world we call them bandwagon riders. You know, people who do things just because they think it's poopular? Yeah, you met one of those. You didn't meet one of us. I'm tired of working 70 hours a week to barely (and I mean barely) scrape the barrier of foodstamps/nofoodstamps. I'm tired of the banks foreclosing on homes because their interest rates jump up and we can't afford to compensate, because that means we can't feed our children.

Thank you for misunderstanding.

 

[Ochalla]

"We received a request from US law enforcement to remove YouTube videos of police brutality."
http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests/US/?p=2011-06

Ugh I shouldn't be surprised, but I still am.

 

[Hartke]

Then people want to say "Oh just go to school and get a better job." But how many people are actually successfully able to do that now? School costs are INSANE. You need a job to be able to pay for your school. But you can't get a good job without a degree. You can't even count on government grants for education anymore, because the government is giving all their money away to Bailouts they can't afford, and cutting the GOOD programs out of the equation.

It's all about government reform. >:[ Our government is broken because it's bought and paid for by the people who have loads of cash to throw at it. The American government was born because the -people- wanted to be the ones that made the laws, voted, and did what was right for the majority of the country. But you very clearly see that this hasn't been happening for a long time now.

...I ranted a bit. c__c The whole "of they hate corporations then why are they using corporate stuff?" always irks me. Cause that's not what the battle is about. That's the spin media and in-pocket politicians use to make the protesters look like unwashed stupid hypocritical hippies and discredit the real purpose of the movement. ><

I'm in Canada, but we've had our own splash protests which have resulted. I empathize with pretty much all of Diana's rant. I hate it when people harp back saying 'get a better job'. I can't get a better job right now. To get a better job I need a better education, which I want, but could never hope for without taking out a huge student loan that might not even pay out. There is no promise that education with reap reward beyond a slightly better desk job that pays a dollar or two more. So is it worth the risk of living the next twenty years in debt? Fortunately, things don't seem to be as bad in Canada as they are in the states. Still, that doesn't mean we should ignore our problems.


To be honest I'm more aware of my provincial/municipal problems than my federal. We've issues with one company (an American one if I remember correctly) in particular that completely ignored due process and started hydraulic-fracturing without consent of a city counsel. It's the fact that they can, and probably will get away with doing whatever they want with or without the government's consent. Our officials are indentured to these companies and it feels like they are blatantly ignoring the consent of the people. We, as citizens, feel helpless. So we do what we can. We write our representatives, media, etc. Sometimes that alone is not enough and so you need to stage a protest. It's a way of getting information out and having one's opinion recognized. --It is -not- a way that people go asking for handouts, and if the people are venting change/action is at least worth consideration.--


It's frustrating when people completely dismiss a protest because of idiosyncrasies about what a person should be. I remember people in passing using a number of descriptions to dismiss protestors. Assumptions about the younger protesters living off 'mommy and daddy's bank account' and older protesters being welfare druggies. It's pathetic how many people dismiss environmentalists as being insane hippies that chain themselves to trees. To make such an assumption is rude, and in most cases, irrelevant. (This isn't directed at anyone in this thread, just sort of my personal observations as someone who has gone to protests)

Anyway. /rant, rant, rant. The point is have faith in humanity. Understand that democracy requires active participation to work, and that participation goes beyond just voting for a party/person. The official that represents your region has to represent you, and if they don't you need to let them know. We have an obligation to inform and communicate amongst ourselves and a protest is just another means of communication and assembly. Maybe this movement has no decisive direction at this time, but that's because it's just starting out. A leader, or a few leaders, need to appear. Organization takes time, and something so large might take a bit longer to become a bit more concrete in its ways. I understand the criticisms, and criticisms are required to force a protest into becoming more decisive; but it's a part of the process of focusing a movement rather than completely abolishing or dismissing it.


Also, on side note with the whole anti-capitalist, corporation movement. I'll admit. I know a lot of people that feel that way. But the sentiment is much more balanced than most people think (at least within my province/municipality). It's not about abolishing these corporations and companies, it's about holding them accountable and not letting them diminish the quality of people's lives with greed. There are many wonderful innovations that have been the result of big businesses. However, things have been taken a bit far by some companies. When they disregard both their consumers and their employees there is a problem that can't be solved so simply by not buying from the store. When people make less, they have to spend less, and can only buy from places that can afford to sell for less.


((My father worked for a certain retail chain for years and I watched them run him slowly into the ground over the years. He's a hard worker and works a lot, but I swear he'd be worth more to them dead than alive at this point. There is no reward for employee loyalty. This is a bit more of a personal opinion, but it's personal for a lot of people.))

 

[Woodrat]

Just some updates in terms of Oakland. I saw some other articles and things of interest, but I'll work on posting them tomorrow when I am not so tired.

'Iraq war veteran is believed to have sustained damage to speech centre of his brain in injury at Occupy protest on Tuesday'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/28/occupy-oakland-occupy-movement

Poster calling for a November 2 general strike
http://www.occupyoakland.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/GENERALSTRIKE_engish.jpg

 

[Woodrat]

Double Post 'n Update

Haven't really been keeping up on this as of late, but here is some information.

Helicopter footage of Oakland Nov. 2 general strike http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r4jYdCaHrjQ

Images

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...0355944141375.346907.598766374&type=1&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...94437180.35902.154591897968793&type=1&theater

Agitators blamed for Oakland Unrest

http://news.yahoo.com/scores-arrested-oakland-agitators-blamed-unrest-023156310.html

Marine Says Oakland Used Crowd Control Methods That Are Prohibited In War Zones

http://www.businessinsider.com/mari...prohibited-in-war-zones-2011-10#ixzz1c7w5tBXC

Annnnd the Oakland PD appearently do it again... send another Army veteran to the ICU, after sticking him in a cell with life-threating injuries for 18 hours first.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/04/us-protests-oakland-veteran-idUSTRE7A37A820111104

 

[Woodrat]

Ressurect from zee dead and triple post... because some events have pissed me off. Summary of articles and events of the past two weeks in regards to the Occupy Movement.





[DASH=blue]Occupy Oakland/Califorina
[/DASH][DASH=blue]

"Riot cops at Occupy Oakland shoot a man with rubber bullets for filming them"

Link

"Lance Laverdure And Margaret So, Occupy Oakland Protesters Hit By Car, Demand Justice"

Link

"Scott Olsen, Marine vet injured by police at Occupy Oakland, is released from hospital"

Link

"Occupy protesters, students, and professors getting hit with batons at UC Berkeley"

Link

Link

"Pepper spraying and arresting student protesters sitting peacefully at UC Davis"

Link

"UC Davis Professor Demands Chancellor Resign Over Pepper Spraying Of Students"

Link

"UC Davis Chancellor Kotehi walk of silence"

Link

[/DASH]
[DASH=white]Occupy Wall St.

"Court order allows Occupy Wall St. protesters back"

Link

"NYPD doesn't care, Occupy Wall Street is evicted"

Link

"Daily Caller reporter, videographer assaulted by NYPD during 'Occupy' protests"

Link

Related to the above article "Reporters For Right-Wing Publication Daily Caller Beaten By NYPD, Helped By Protesters"

Link

"Blood on Wall Street: Violent OWS arrests"

'This won't make the news because he isn't a veteran...'

"suffered a fractured skull after being hit with a baton to the head"

Link

"The NYPD has discredited itself"

Link

From the comments section

from: davidmendez01

Its a shame that such a fine department is doing things like this. When they dont care about harming authorized legal observers. Here is a direct quote from New York Supreme Court Judge Karen Smith who was one of those observers and her interaction with a NYPD officer...

"I was there to take down the names of people who were arrested… As I'm standing there, some African-American woman goes up to a police officer and says, 'I need to get in. My daughter's there. I want to know if she's OK.' And he said, 'Move on, lady.' And they kept pushing with their sticks, pushing back. And she was crying. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he throws her to the ground and starts hitting her in the head," says Smith. "I walk over, and I say, 'Look, cuff her if she's done something, but you don't need to do that.' And he said, 'Lady, do you want to get arrested?' And I said, 'Do you see my hat? I'm here as a legal observer.' He said, 'You want to get arrested?' And he pushed me up against the wall."

The NYPD is not garnering favor with the general public when a lack of oversight is allowing situations like this to happen.

"Retired Philadelphia police captain protests police behavior"

Link

"All of the electronics seized in the recent Zuccotti Park raid were destroyed"

Link

[/DASH]
[DASH=red]Occupy Seattle

"Dorli Rainey age 84, Pepper Sprayed by SPD at Occupy Seattle Protest"

Link

Photo Link

"Interview with the 84-year-old activist who got pepper sprayed in Seattle"

Link

[/DASH]

Misc Occupy Protests: Atlanta, Columbia, UK

"Occupy Atlanta encamps in neighborhood to save police officers home from foreclosure"

Link

"Occupy Columbia, arrests made following an 6:00pm curfew on State House grounds"

Link

"Firearms police officer 'slept in Occupy St Paul's tent after night out drinking'"

Link

[DASH=orange]Misc

"Lobbying firm's memo spells out plan to undermine Occupy Wall Street"

Link

"4 Ways the Poor Get Screwed That Everyone Takes for Granted"

Link

"'The Grass Is Closed': What I Have Learned About Power from the Police"

Link

"Occupy With Aloha"

Link

"The Straw Man Comes to Zuccotti Park"

Link

"Bill would make wearing masks during riots a crime"

Link

"Impressive Google photo album dedicated to Occupy, 460 plus random pictures"

Link

"Police Chief Who Oversaw 1999 WTO Crackdown Says Paramilitary Policing Is a Disaster"

Link

"A little history of police strategies in handling protests"

Link

[/DASH]

 

[Zen]

Yeah the police brutality is getting to be outrageous, although with a movement that big I'm not surprised. Protests and cops don't mix well and our history shows it. I just hope everything gets handled as quickly as possible so I don't have to to see this stuff on the news all the time.

 

[Slyen]

So in an effort to raise my post count I will comment.

I do not agree with the Occupy Wall Street movement.

That is all I am going to say. I'm not going to get into specifics or anything like that as the last thing I want to do is cause an even larger argument. That and it's already treading a fine line for me.

So... that is all.

 

[MurderDeathKill]

._. I think the arguement is large enough, inside and outside Iwaku, that your contribution to it won't really make things all that much worse/better.

 

[Delnoir]

The City finally got sick of the...what...two weeks of protests basically screwing Downtown Portland's functionality in the arse so they kicked them out last week.