Might as Well Jump on the Bandwagon - Views on the Military

[Sir Salty]

Ah, fair enough. Good ole' Margie and the Falkland Islands.

Just, in the future, I would recommend reading more history. It's fascinating, if nothing else, and shows why many wars became unavoidable in their times.

Or as I like to call her Margie the Cum Stain.

History has never really been my subject. As a kid I both found it fascinating and interesting, but also kind of boring. If there was a way to make history a bit more fun for this unmedicated ADD child who needs to focus on ooo shiny. lol That be great

Like there's this Swedish show that explores the history of food and how food influenced each era of food. And it's fun because they have to live in the said culture of whatever era they are exploring and it's not so dry. Ever seen a history documentary. The narration is so dry and so hard to focus on

 

[Drakel]

Nope. Don't care enough to even bother really.

Though I do love the stories of a roller coaster into a giant furnace. My favorite.

Thought so...

Funny really, you make a faulty claim though when asked to cite your sources in order to prove said claims, you could never deliver.

I on the other hand CAN source my sources to prove things that I say. Like how well over a million jews died from the ethnic-cleansing along with over 5 million often forgotten non-jews died from said ethnic-cleansing along side them. How the USSR also drastically increased these numbers and actually killed MORE innocent people than Hitler.

3 to 0. Do I get my gold medal yet?

 

[Windsong]

Thought so...

Funny really, you make a faulty claim though when asked to cite your sources in order to prove said claims, you could never deliver.

I on the other hand CAN source my sources to prove things that I say. Like how well over a million jews died from the ethnic-cleansing along with over 5 million often forgotten non-jews died from said ethnic-cleansing along side them. How the USSR also drastically increased these numbers and actually killed MORE innocent people than Hitler.

3 to 0. Do I get my gold medal yet?

Or I'm at work on a phone and don't wanna bother.. But sure, you 'win' I guess?

Wow, someone actually mentions Stalin's genocide. That actually impressed me. Most don't and only talk about Jews. Cause, well Jews.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

3 to 0. Do I get my gold medal yet?

I'll give you an enthusiastic pat on the back and move you further down the list of people I intend to ban.

Which is basically the equivalent.

If there was a way to make history a bit more fun for this unmedicated ADD child who needs to focus on ooo shiny. lol That be great

Moments like this, I kinda wish history was taught at high school the way it's taught at universities. Focusing more on engagement and active discussion rather than "HERE ARE FACTS, YOU LITTLE SHITSTUMPS. LEARN THEM."

Though you could try checking out the Crash Course History videos. Those things are pretty great. Or maybe check out some of Paradox's grand strategy titles, like Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis or Hearts Of Iron. There's a metric ton of history to be found in those.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Wow, someone actually mentions Stalin's genocide. That actually impressed me. Most don't and only talk about Jews. Cause, well Jews.

This is why everyone has you on Ignore, dude.

 

[Windsong]

This is why everyone has you on Ignore, dude.

Because of differing views? How bigoted of them.

 

[Sir Salty]

Moments like this, I kinda wish history was taught at high school the way it's taught at universities. Focusing more on engagement and active discussion rather than "HERE ARE FACTS, YOU LITTLE SHITSTUMPS. LEARN THEM."

Though you could try checking out the Crash Course History videos. Those things are pretty great. Or maybe check out some of Paradox's grand strategy titles, like Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis or Hearts Of Iron. There's a metric ton of history to be found in those.

I do watch Crash Course. But I'll definitely will check those out. I certainly would like to know more. I just have horrendous horrendous horrendous focus and attention issues sometimes. I can barely watch a regular movie and sit down without getting restless.

 

[Hecatoncheires]

History audiobooks can be a good way to get some learnin' in you, if you find reading historical texts difficult.

And I don't blame you if you do. I finished up a Masters in History last year, so I think I'm qualified to say that historians are some of the worst fucking writers out there. Scientists have an excuse to be boring, given their somewhat dry subject matter, but how the hell people discussing something as fascinating and engaging as World War Two or the Scottish Wars of Independence (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, BARROW, YOU FUCK) can make such subjects as interesting as watching paint dry is beyond me.

Speaking of good audiobooks, 'The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich' by William Shirer has a pretty sweet audio adaptation. Shirer was also a journalist rather than an academic, too.

So can actually, y'know, write good.

 

[Drakel]

Or I'm at work on a phone and don't wanna bother.. But sure, you 'win' I guess?

Wow, someone actually mentions Stalin's genocide. That actually impressed me. Most don't and only talk about Jews. Cause, well Jews.

Indeed. I'm Jewish and with family of Jewish decent that have been in both the USSR and Germany during this time. So you can see why your post may irk me since it seemed as though you were discrediting those atrocities, whether you meant to or not. I think it's sad though that no one talks about the USSR or about the 5 million other non-jewish lives were lost as well.

Personally any number over 5k of death toll is a complete atrocity. WW2 had far more death toll than anything we'll see in today's society and enough to make terrorist car bombings look like almost nothing in comparison.

That said, if you'd like to continue this discussion in PMs, I'd be more than glad to do such. However we went completely off topic here so I'm going to take a step back and post again when I do have something more to say that is on topic.

I'll give you an enthusiastic pat on the back and move you further down the list of people I intend to ban.

Which is basically the equivalent.

I don't tend to go on an offensive like such often so consider this a one time thing. Though I'll still take the enthusiastic pat on the back nonetheless. ^^

 

[Windsong]

@Grumpy Fuck/Thank you? I dunno which.

@Drakel I'm not out to discredit anyone's experience or history, your family or otherwise. Just that media lies now and they probably did then too.

 

[Silent]

if there was a way to make history a bit more fun for this unmedicated ADD child who needs to focus on ooo shiny.

Also try Khan Academy.org. I use this as well as Crash Course for my ASD, ADD, OCD teen. Works great for him! He's unmediated as well. :)

 

[Sir Salty]

Also try Khan Academy.org. I use this as well as Crash Course for my ASD, ADD, OCD teen. Works great for him! He's unmediated as well. :)

It's not like I am saying medication is needed. Just there are those days and I am like, I cannot sit and do this right now. lol

 

[Brovo]

Though you could try checking out the Crash Course History videos. Those things are pretty great. Or maybe check out some of Paradox's grand strategy titles, like Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis or Hearts Of Iron. There's a metric ton of history to be found in those.

Keep in mind that CC History has a bit of a slant and sometimes goes scant on important details (because limited time + spread over a lot of projects). So to add onto this...

History Buffs compares Hollywood movies to the real, actual historical events depicted in said movies, like Lawrence of Arabia, or Derpheart. The Great War covers every single week of World War 1, the events leading up to it, and specific questions about people, locations, and sometimes technologies of the war.

Absolutely and emphatically agree on the audiobooks you're recommending.

Because of differing views? How bigoted of them.

I'll address the elephant in the room: It's because you deny some historical facts that are pretty much 100% absolutely undeniable in favour of your own political views. It's not like jews sit around, planning on how to take over the world with banking systems. That particular quote you mention, "the victor writes the history books" is heavily flawed. If you go back into ancient history, it's largely true, because only the victor has surviving records. But if you look at most conflicts dating back anywhere from now to four centuries ago, you'll have a comprehensive list of records from both sides. We know how many people were marched into concentration camps to die because we have the records from the Nazis themselves detailing prisoner transfers and the like. It's not a Jewish conspiracy, it's historical fact.

And dismissing the deaths of over a million people as "overblown" when it's historical fact... That is what is getting underneath people's skin. You want to inquire about it and question the exact number? Sure, whatever, fine, knock yourself out, read every single one of them. Unless the Allies and the Nazis were controlled by the Jews, I'm pretty sure these numbers are as accurate as it gets.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but man, enough. Lay off with the /pol/ nonsense. You don't cite sources because you don't have any that are credible.

 

[Silent]

It's not like I am saying medication is needed. Just there are those days and I am like, I cannot sit and do this right now. lol

Oh no. I gotcha! Understood where ya coming from. ;p

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Keep in mind that CC History has a bit of a slant and sometimes goes scant on important details (because limited time + spread over a lot of projects).

That's unfortunately every historian ever, these days. Reading widely and thoroughly is the only way around it all. Admitedly I'm a dirty Postmodernist bastard by modern academia standards, but everyone's got an agenda at the end of the day

I don't tend to go on an offensive like such often so consider this a one time thing. Though I'll still take the enthusiastic pat on the back nonetheless. ^^

Don't take it personal.

I'm banning everyone if Diana ever makes the mistake of promoting me.

I think it's sad though that no one talks about the USSR or about the 5 million other non-jewish lives were lost as well.

If I had to hazard a guess, less attention's been paid to the millions who died as a result of Stalin's five year plans because there's a difference in intention between those killings and the Holocaust.

The majority of Stalin's victims were Russian peasantry, and though they died as a result of Stalin's policies their deaths weren't the specific intention of them. Stalin most certainly didn't like them much (partly because of his own experiences but also because his confidante, Maxim Gorky, fucking hated the peasantry), but it was more the case of "I need to overhaul Russian industry, and I don't give a shit if people suffer as a consequence", rather than "fuck those dirty plebeians, let's exterminate them".

Compare that to the Holocaust, and other acknowledged genocides, and you have the deliberate, orchestrated attempt to wipe out a specific group of people (in this instance, the Jews) purely because of their ethnicity or race (the "genos" part of the term).

 

[Brovo]

Compare that to the Holocaust, and other acknowledged genocides, and you have the deliberate, orchestrated attempt to wipe out a specific group of people (in this instance, the Jews) purely because of their ethnicity or race (the "genos" part of the term).

There's also the simple fact that it's well publicized. At least, far more so than the five year plan's death rate. (Damn Ukraine, never catching a fucking break.)

 

[Hecatoncheires]

At least, far more so than the five year plan's death rate.

Very true. That, and you gotta remember that massive casualty figures in Russia weren't anything new in this time period. Around three million people died in the Civil War that erupted in the aftermath of the Bolshevik coup, after all.

Folks back then were probably just like "oh hey, the Russians are slaughtering each other again again."

 

[Drakel]

@Grumpy Fuck/Thank you? I dunno which.

@Drakel I'm not out to discredit anyone's experience or history, your family or otherwise. Just that media lies now and they probably did then too.

I see... There is a difference in that the media lying though, and when it has been proven that those atrocities DID exist and happen to such a terrifyingly, sickening degree that it makes you appreciate the world you live in today a bit more. The loss of life should be something that weighs heavily and should really never be taken lightly. The loss of millions though is something that should never be forgotten and should be used to teach us lessons that need to be taught, like how we should appreciate the lives of others and our own for instance... along with how much hate and one's ideals can do to an entire people and how damaging the belief can be when put to an extreme.

Don't take it personal.

I'm banning everyone if Diana ever makes the mistake of promoting me.

Ahh... Alrighty.

If I had to hazard a guess, less attention's been paid to the millions who died as a result of Stalin's five year plans because there's a difference in intention between those killings and the Holocaust.

The majority of Stalin's victims were Russian peasantry, and though they died as a result of Stalin's policies their deaths weren't the specific intention of them. Stalin most certainly didn't like them much (partly because of his own experiences but also because his confidante, Maxim Gorky, fucking hated the peasantry), but it was more the case of "I need to overhaul Russian industry, and I don't give a shit if people suffer as a consequence", rather than "fuck those dirty plebeians, let's exterminate them".

Compare that to the Holocaust, and other acknowledged genocides, and you have the deliberate, orchestrated attempt to wipe out a specific group of people (in this instance, the Jews) purely because of their ethnicity or race (the "genos" part of the term).

Indeed. Though I think also had a lot to do with the fact that the Holocaust was more publi~

There's also the simple fact that it's well publicized. At least, far more so than the five year plan's death rate. (Damn Ukraine, never catching a fucking break.)

Damn it! You beat me to the punchline. xP

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This does remind me though, I do have a bit more to say... War really shouldn't be a thing, though I do understand why it is. While it is helplessly optimistic for such a world to exist so long as there are conflicting ideals and nations that require resources that other nations have... I actually agree with @Clyde on the matter of that we really should start looking more into alternative methods to settle national disputes that don't cost the lives of others. I find wars to be sickening, though at the same time necessary in part, depending on the situation. I don't know, I think I would rather just see everyone play video games rather than actually go to war.

 

[Icy]

It's not like jews sit around, planning on how to take over the world with banking systems.

 

[Sir Salty]

This does remind me though, I do have a bit more to say... War really shouldn't be a thing, though I do understand why it is. While it is helplessly optimistic for such a world to exist so long as there are conflicting ideals and nations that require resources that other nations have... I actually agree with @Clyde on the matter of that we really should start looking more into alternative methods to settle national disputes that don't cost the lives of others. I find wars to be sickening, though at the same time necessary in part, depending on the situation. I don't know, I think I would rather just see everyone play video games rather than actually go to war.

As would I. I'd love to turn back in time and teach the world how to solve their problems with board games and card games. Like an anime.