Mental Disorders as arguments, scapegoats, et cetera

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I just want to mention that I never said that having different kinds of problems excuses all the lying, manipulation, and making life harder for people who legitimately have those disorders. Just that it's a factor that isn't often considered when addressing the problem.

People are always, always accountable for their behavior even if they have a disorder. Several years ago when I was on Staff, I reprimanded a member (who has since left, I believe, or I wouldn't share this) for blowing up at people in a forum thread. They screamed at me. The next day they replied to me again claiming that they have DID and that it was an alternate personality that was to blame for all the drama. I replied that they were still responsible for what was done using their account, much like they would be if they let an underage family member get access to their account and that underage member was smutting with adults. They didn't like that answer AT ALL, but I stand by it to this day.
 
This depends heavily on a number of things, mostly the intent behind using a disorder as an excuse.

Firstly, if we're talking about someone who's not actually diagnosed and/or just straight-up lying? Then that is 100% not ok. Just... just no. Stop. What you're doing is absolutely awful and you don't deserve any of the pity you're getting. Also, you're the reason why there's so much stigma preventing people who actually have these disorders from talking about them. If you're not diagnosed but you think you have a mental disorder, then don't say "I have X disorder", say, "I think I might have X disorder". And go see a professional about it. Don't self-diagnose, and, if for whatever reason the topic comes up before you see a professional, or you see a list of symptoms online and think it describes you, then don't say "oh, I must have this", say, "I think I could possibly have this, because it would explain a lot", and let a professional take it from there if you're really concerned about it. I don't see anything wrong with someone simply stating that they think they have a certain disorder, so long as it's stated as a mere possibility as opposed to fact (and assuming it's relevant to the conversation at hand). Just... be honest, and don't lie/self-diagnose. That's rule #1.

As for the rest, I'd say it has to do with the intent of it. If you're bringing up your disorder expressly for the purpose of getting pity points or feeling like a special snowflake, then, yeah, that's dickish. But, if you're just being honest about when your disorder is making it difficult to do something, then... I don't know why that's something to be shamed. In fact, personally, I often worry that any mention of my disorder might come across as just "doing it for attention" (or at least, I used to be a lot more worried about it -- I've recently built up a bit more confidence in that regard) when I'm really not trying to do that sort of thing.

For example: I've mentioned my ADHD around here before. If I were to summarize my experiences with it in a nutshell, it basically means that I have a hard time staying focused on specific things -- especially things that require a fair amount of mental effort, like schoolwork -- and I have a tendency to zone out a lot when trying to do these things, which can sometimes make it feel nearly impossible. Because of this, it's hard for me to write IC posts and do a lot of other GM stuff when I'm not medicated. Sometimes even relatively simple things like responding to a PM from a co-GM or reading over a CS can be too hard for me, because I just can't stay focused enough on the task at hand to really absorb all the information. So, if it's late at night and my medication has worn off, and someone posts a CS for me to read, I'll try to give it a look-over, but, there's a very good chance that I just won't be in the right state of mind to give it a close read or a thorough response. So, I might say to that player, "I'll look at it tomorrow", and I might even add something like "I just can't concentrate on reading it right now". But, then there's the fact that I'll probably still be online and doing less thought-intensive things, and I don't want to look like I'm lazy -- ignoring their CS and claiming to not be in a good state of mind to read it when I'm still capable of being online and doing other things. I could use my disorder as an explanation as to why I can't give a CS a close read and solid response, but then, I don't want to sound like that guy who uses a disorder as a free pass to be lazy. So, it often leaves me wondering, which is worse? >.<

In general, I just try to be honest. If I'm not feeling up to something and I think it'll be hard for me to stay focused, I'll tell people that. If I feel like I need to clarify why exactly I have problems staying focused, then, I will. Because, yes, it's true that a disorder doesn't define a person, but it does make certain things more difficult for them. That's kind of what makes it a disorder. Expecting people to never be limited by their disorder is like pretending that it doesn't exist, and I don't think that's really helpful to anyone, either. I see nothing wrong with being honest about when something is difficult for you. After all, if you were sick (and I mean sick enough to stay home from school/work), and you realized it was your turn to post on one of your roleplays, but didn't feel up to it, I think your partner/GM would be understanding if you just told them the truth about why you couldn't post. And I don't think they'd take much issue with seeing you lurking around GC, either, since writing an IC post takes up a lot more mental effort than a one-sentence comment on a GC thread, and you have a very good reason to be feeling too fatigued to write an IC post, especially since the understanding is that you'll be feeling better at some point and you can tackle that post then.

Now, if you were using your sickness as a way of fishing for pity points/special treatment, or you were exaggerating about how sick you were and just wanted to use a mild cold as an excuse for not posting, or you were completely lying about being sick to begin with, then that would be dickish. But, honestly being sick and not feeling up to posting? You have every right to use that as an excuse. I don't see why mental illnesses should be treated any differently from physical illnesses in this regard. If you're not feeling well then you're not feeling well, and, so long as you're not being an absolute dick about it, I don't see why it should be wrong to just be honest about what the problem is.

I think what bothers me the most about all of this is how people often assume that people only bring up their mental disorders when they're trying to be manipulative or attention whorish about it, but, I don't think that's a lot of people's intentions. I know I often worry that I'm coming across as such when I really don't mean to, and I'm probably not the only one. I just wish there wasn't so much of a stigma around it.

To give another personal example: I'm in a LARP group (currently on hiatus, going to start up again during the spring semester), in which, one complaint the GMs' had from last semester's sessions was how they felt that the players weren't paying enough attention to things that were going on. And, every time they brought it up, I felt guilty -- because I was one of those people who wasn't paying enough attention. Except, I was really trying to. I really wanted to stay focused. But, that isn't always within my control. I can recall one night where it was really bad -- there was this battle going on, and, every time it was my turn to do something, I had to ask the GM's what was happening and where everyone was, because I just couldn't focus well enough to keep track of it all. I apologized plenty every time I had to ask, though, because I knew how much the GM's were annoyed by this sort of thing already, and I really didn't want them to think that I just wasn't putting in the effort. Recently I've been debating whether or not I should mention my ADHD to the GM's, just to tell them that I really am trying to stay focused and that I'm sorry if my disorder makes me zone out for a second and miss some important information. Trouble is, once again, I don't want to sound like I'm just using my disorder as an excuse. And, I don't know what would be worse -- not saying anything and making them think I'm one of the players who isn't putting enough effort in, or telling them and making it sound like I'm trying to be a special snowflake? And, if I did tell them, would I be expecting special treatment? Would they interpret it as me asking for special treatment, or at least a special pass giving me an excuse to have information repeated to me because I missed it the first time? And if I don't actually suggest anything they can do to make it easier for me, would I just be perceived as wanting pity points?

I really wish I could just give people a simple, honest explanation for these things -- something a bit better than "sorry, I'm really out of it right now" -- but it's the nuance surrounding all this that makes me hesitate to be honest about it, making me feel like I have something to hide, when, really, why should I feel that way?

tl;dr -- I feel like there's a difference between "Sorry, I really am trying, but my disorder is making it difficult to do a certain thing" and "I have a disorder so I shouldn't be expected to do that thing". The former implies that you're making an effort but, unfortunately, your disorder is being too difficult to deal with. The latter is what sounds like an excuse and a free pass for not doing anything. The latter is, yes, dickish -- but I don't like the fact that there's so much stigma surrounding the latter that the people who want to say the former feel like they can't. :/



As for expecting other people to conform to your needs -- that also depends a lot on the situation, but, I'm not really that against the idea of it as much as some other people here. First, it depends on just what you're asking of them. Obviously, some things are more reasonable than others. But, if it's just a small thing? I really don't see the problem in being a little considerate and trying to do things that'll make their life a little bit easier, especially if it doesn't take much effort on your part. Secondly, it depends on who it is that you're asking these kinds of things from. Complete strangers? Yeah, it might be a bit much for you to expect that from them. Friends/acquaintances? That might be a lot more acceptable. And then, of course, there's just how you go about it. If you explain your disorder and politely ask that someone does/doesn't do a certain thing for you to make things easier for you, then that's a lot better than demanding that people do what you say and acting as if they're in the wrong for not conforming to your needs. One of these things is a polite request, the other is forcing your demands onto others and framing them in the moral wrong when they don't comply. There's a big difference between these two things.

Yes, it's true that you can't expect everyone to refrain from doing things that make you uncomfortable or to go out of their way to do a few extra things to help you. But, if someone asks politely about it, I see no reason to frame them as being in the wrong -- and there's nothing wrong with being a little considerate in return. If someone makes this kind of request and you don't go out of your way to please them then, well, I can't exactly blame you -- especially if you deem it an unreasonable request. But, doing the opposite of what they want just to spite them? Or telling them that they're in the wrong just for making such a request? I'm not sure that's really the right thing to do, either. In general, I think some basic respect and understanding goes a long way.

Interesting story: Recently, someone tried to join one of my RP's but with a CS filled with so many grammar and spelling mistakes that parts of it were legitimately difficult to understand. I told her that she'd need to proofread her CS and fix her grammar before it could be acceptable, and she told me that grammar and spelling is difficult for her because of her dyslexia. Now, there are two ways this could've gone but it didn't: I didn't tell her that her dyslexia wasn't an excuse, but I also didn't let her grammar issues slide just because of that. Instead, I understood that I can't expect her grammar/spelling to magically improve just because she can't use dyslexia as an excuse, as this is probably something that she does really struggle with, and I offered to help her fix her grammar, so that she could get to the point where her CS could be acceptable. If she hadn't been honest with me about her dyslexia, and instead just said "yeah ok I'll fix my grammar" while not actually fixing a lot of the mistakes, I would probably just think that she wasn't putting in the effort, and she might not have even gotten to join the RP. :/ At the same time, though, I couldn't have just let her poor grammar go through just because of her disorder -- because I need to be able to read CS's and IC posts.

I have no problem with people being honest with me about when their disorders make things difficult for them, and I would hope that no person legitimately struggling with a mental illness feels like they have to hide that sort of thing for fear of being called an attention whore. And, if someone is honest with me about that sort of thing, I might even be willing to lend a hand and help make things easier. But, it goes without saying that not everything can go your way just because you have a disorder. Explaining your actions can make people more understanding and it might make it possible to find a way to make things easier for you, if you're willing to at least try to meet people halfway. And you can't expect that everyone will conform to your own special set of needs, either. But, if people with mental disorders are just honest about what they need help with, and perhaps make some polite requests about how to make things easier for them -- and the people receiving those requests just try to be understanding and acknowledge that you can't expect someone with a mental disorder to not have any issues, well, I think that's a pretty solid way to make everyone happy. Again, basic manners and a little bit of openness and understanding goes a long way, I think.

Wow, this turned out really long. @_@ Sorry about that.
 
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I do have to somewhat disagree with you there. I wouldn't generalize Tumblr in that way any more than I would say all Christians are bad and awful. Yeah, there's a lot of people on there that self diagnose, but the community has created an environment of education, too. I didn't know shit about mental health and sexuality and all that stuff nobody likes to talk about before. There are people on that website that grossly romanticize mental disorders and self harming, but there are also so many support groups and supportive folks. A lot of people post about their scars and mental health is because they can get that support for their recovery.

Don't think of the whole negatively just because of the handful of bad.
Thank you. It's rare to see someone who agrees with me on this.

Tumblr's a big website -- there's lots of bad, sure, but, lots of good, too. For every shitty, toxic, or downright misinforming post out there, there's another person calling them out on their bullshit. Or at least, that's what seems to be the case in my experience, anyway.

If nothing else, Tumblr definitely likes to talk about mental disorders and, above all, spread awareness, it seems like. And, well, some of those posts might not be sending out the best message, but, a lot of them seem alright to me. If nothing else, it's definitely a place where I've been able to find quite a few highly relatable posts about my experiences with my disorder. XD

Also,
I talk about my struggles with mental illness a lot online, because I rarely get to talk about it in real life. I find it cathartic. I never, ever want or intend to use it to shut down conversations; I only ever want to use it to spark them, or to offer another perspective. Mental health has such a stigma attached to it and I want to encourage open discussion about it, because it's nothing to be ashamed of. It can really help with recovery.
I want to echo this. I talk about my ADHD a lot here in GC, and I often worry that I come across like I'm doing it to make myself sound special, but, that's really not the intention. >.< Fauna pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as my reasoning for discussing it goes. Catharsis, offering other perspectives, and encouraging open discussion so that people don't feel ashamed about it are all pretty much the main reasons why I talk about my disorder as much as I do here. It's never with the intent of shutting others down or placing myself above them. And, if I've ever come across as such, I do sincerely apologize.
 
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Maybe it's just me and my generation (Which is pretty much the 'don't ask, don't tell' type of deal.) but broadcasting what is wrong with you, and what sort of ordeal you've gone through in your life in a public forum is slightly embarrassing. I can understand if it's a support group forum where people are there to talk about their experiences and share ways to cope, but if you're on something like Iwaku, or a place that is meant to be entertaining I don't see the point in broadcasting it. Someone makes a joke about molesting monkeys, and another person feels the need to say 'My uncle molested a monkey in front of me and now I'm scarred for life!' it just seems like a cry for attention. If they were really bothered by it, they would ignore it without sharing with the world information that is better kept private. If something offends them because it reminds them of painful memories, than they should close the site, shut the computer off and walk away. Not sit there and whine and make a big deal about something that was meant to be a joke to use it to make it all about their problems. There's a time and a place for that, and the internet, where there are hundreds of people you don't know isn't one of them.

Don't get me wrong. I understand that there are people who struggle because of disorders. I have a Bachelor's degree in pyschology (Which I don't broadcast for a reason!) so I understand that no one is perfect. I also understand that people handle things differently. However, there's a difference between informing someone that you have a problem, and simply using that problem to have pity parties thrown for you.


If I tell someone 'I suffer from depression' it's not because I want them to say 'Oh you pour thing!'. I tell people so they understand that there are periods of time that I might go inactive because I simply lose interest in everything. That is normal and realistic.

If I go around saying 'My dad tried to kidnap me and stuff me in a cage full of horny dogs!' for no obvious reason at all. (No, that didn't happen! I'm using it as an example.) That's trying to get attention, and that's not right. That's where the line should be drawn.
 
@The Tumblr Bit:

In simplistic terms, you basically have to look at Tumblr like this.
There's North Tumblr, the community Yata was referring to.
And then you've got the (far more populated) South Tumblr, people who are just having fun with fandoms, gifs, and reblogs... Lots and lots of reblogs.
 
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@The Tumblr Bit:

In simplistic terms, you basically have to look at Tumblr like this.
There's North Tumblr, the community Yata was referring to.
And then you've got the (far more populated) South Tumblr, people who are just having fun with fandoms, gifs, and reblogs... Lots and lots of reblogs.
And porn. Do not forget the porn.
 
@The Tumblr Bit:

In simplistic terms, you basically have to look at Tumblr like this.
There's North Tumblr, the community Yata was referring to.
And then you've got the (far more populated) South Tumblr, people who are just having fun with fandoms, gifs, and reblogs... Lots and lots of reblogs.
Yo as the person who brought up that metaphor in the first place, I feel the need to correct myself and mention that the borders aren't quite as defined as I may have initially suggested.

Also, even if that wasn't the case, "reblogs" aren't really native to either side... more like... a fundamental aspect of the site. :/ And something every "side" of Tumblr uses rather liberally, I would think. Even the more negative parts of Tumblr wouldn't really get anywhere without them -- it's sort of how posts of any kind get spread around in the first place.
 
Well, looking at this considerably ruined my mood!

Thankfully, even though I live in a not-too-great country, I don't get picked on because of my outbursts. I try not to even remember the bad times.

As for using my current/past mental state for boasting/misusing it... I have done so in the past, I admit. After taking a step back and looking at it from a kinda neutral perspective, I calmed down a lot and understood my situation better. Now I'm jut trying to be a better person overall, and stay calm in order not to do something stupid... Ignorance really is bliss.

And for using it generally? It really depends, bash me all you want, but yes, I think people are allowed to use it, SOMETIMES and only if they are actually diagnosed. If they know something'll happen and they really don't want to go through the experience, then just let them be.
 
In certain cases, I think it shouldn't be a problem to proclaim your mental illnesses. For example; Counseling, or a blog or something. But if you're using your mental disorders or faking one to get unhealthy attention, than I don't respect you. If you're just claiming you have them, to say you have them, than that's not right. When I speak about my mental illnesses, I do so to educate and inform. That's all I have to say about that. -3-
 
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