Joss Whedon is sexists!!111!

[Persephone]

Clearly, this is the only reason Black Widow is in the Avengers movies.

 

[Razilin]

I'm more offended that Avengers 2 was overall an inferior movie to Avengers 1 than I am about sexist

Is that bad?

 

[AetherDream]

I don't think Joss Whedon is sexist but I do see why pop-feminists are pointing the finger and calling foul. There are four reasons that I imagine it set the internet ablaze with that shiny indignant rage glow that it gets every now and again. Be warned, I'm going to be voicing these points in a fashion as closely resembling what I imagine people have tossed around the net to set off the bomb that hit Joss Whedon's twitter.

SPOILER WARNING!

1) Black Widow seems to be dependent on the Hulk for some semblance of happiness which involves them running away together from everyone and everything. She's offering to leave everything that she's done so far and is leaving said decision to the man she wants to run away with.

2) She is most useful after action scenes when she's calming the Hulk down. Compared to most of the other heroes, she is much weaker and has little in the way of skills which stand out or scenes which display whatever skills she has.

3) When bearing her soul to the Hulk, she reveals that she is sterile and thus that makes her a monster. Black Widow equates the feminine identity with being able to have children. Since she cannot do that, like Bruce Banner who cannot control the Hulks actions, she is also a monster.

4) She is the only Avenger who needs to be rescued from a literal cage in the entire film. When she is rescued, it's by the man who she is dependent on which only furthers the idea and who later abandons her.

So yeah, those are probably the things that people are pointing to and getting all nasty about.

 

[Koschei]

Aren't a lot of people angry that her value as a woman is weighed by her ability to give birth, and that she became a love interest (for possibly no logical reason)? Or something like that?

I haven't watched the movie yet, but that's roughly what I gathered from all the angry tumblr blogs. Going to refrain from having an opinion until I've seen the movie myself, though.

 

[Razilin]

see, i don't think the hulk x widow crack pairing was sexist.

i think it was a crack pairing.

because it came literally out of nowhere.

at the end of the movie, i still didn't feel it.

just like i didn't feel that Avengers 2 met the bar set by Avengers 1.

so overall, this isn't sexism.

its general quality fail.

because Avengers 1 is a tough act to follow, even for Joss "Geek God" Whedon.

and it just wasn't as good as Avengers 1.


admittedly, part of it is because Avengers 1 was the first super hero team up on the silver screen ever.

 

[AetherDream]

Aren't a lot of people angry that her value as a woman is weighed by her ability to give birth, and that she became a love interest (for possibly no logical reason)? Or something like that?

I haven't watched the movie yet, but that's roughly what I gathered from all the angry tumblr blogs. Going to refrain from having an opinion until I've seen the movie myself, though.

Yeah, that and her character referred to herself as a monster. No doubt this was a play to try and make her character seem empathetic with another, but people are taking it in another direction. Perhaps a poor choice of words for the script.

 

[Razilin]

Yeah, that and her character referred to herself as a monster. No doubt this was a play to try and make her character seem empathetic with another, but people are taking it in another direction. Perhaps a poor choice of words for the script.

If she's a monster, then I want to see it.

AKA, "if any Marvel movie crew are reading this post, make a Black Widow movie already."

Because yeah, I wanna know more about the Red Room and her early missions.

I mean, one of the two higlights in Avengers 2 is Hawkeye being a really cool dad and family man. (the other involving a hammer and an android, but NO SPOILERS).

SO GIMME A BLACK WIDOW MOVIE ALREADY.

I even know who should write the script.

Gail Simone.

 

[SacredWarrior]

NO BLACK WIDOW'S PORTRAYAL WAS NOT SEXIST!! Seriously people these days are so stupid and too easily offended.

 

[Zachary-Sama]

With a gun. That probably can't hurt any of the aforementioned people.

Not true. Captain america is not bullet proof.

Well anyway. How is it sexist? Granted, I haven't seen the new movie, but she was badass in the first Avengers. She killed several Qthari<--- Probably spelt wrong. and she used the spear to turn off the portal, with all her damn strength. Oh, not to mention, she was able to snap Hawkeye out of his trance.

Also, look at her in Iron Man 2. She completely kicked ass against the guards at that one building. And I believe Tony's first words when he first saw her strength and qualifications were "I want one".

Black Widow is an amazing character. She wouldn't be an Avenger if she was weak, in any translation of the word.

Oh and in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. She was on par with Cap and Falcon even without the super strength or fancy metal wings. The only thing I could even think about being sexist in that movie is the way they made Natasha an amazingly attractive woman when not in her combat gear. *Cough cough* Sexy Hipster, anyone??? Not to mention that movie totally had me shipping her with Cap, even though I shipped her with Hawkeye in the Avengers movie. But we all know

shh

That Hawkeye and Black Widow actually have a son

this.

 

[Zachary-Sama]

admittedly, part of it is because Avengers 1 was the first super hero team up on the silver screen ever.

Um no? The first Marvel one, maybe. Have you forgotten about Watchmen? I mean yeah, some people pick Marvel over DC, but you cannot deny the quality of this movie.

Because yeah, I wanna know more about the Red Room and her early missions.

Marvel Anime crew made a movie about her called Black Widow and The Punisher. I have it on my computer.

 

[Dervish]

Um no? The first Marvel one, maybe. Have you forgotten about Watchmen? I mean yeah, some people pick Marvel over DC, but you cannot deny the quality of this movie.


Marvel Anime crew made a movie about her called Black Widow and The Punisher. I have it on my computer.

Watchmen is a great movie and comic book, but it's also stand-alone. Basically, it has a big cast who didn't play the characters in anything else because it's a self-contained story.

What people are talking about when they say the Avengers is the first movie that tried it was that this is the first time anybody had a bunch of movies for most of the characters for their own story arcs and then brought them together in a huge super hero ensemble. Seriously, nobody ever tried anything like that before. It might have lost its charm a bit after the first Avengers because it's now what's expected and we're starting to get a bunch of movies that take a bunch of comic book characters and throw them together in a film (Avengers, Batman Vs. Superman, Justice League, Suicide Squad, Captain America: Civil War, etc.), but there's no denying the first Avengers really was groundbreaking and it took a lot of time and risk to build up to.

EDIT: I also had to remind myself you're still in your teens, so you kind of grew up being immersed in Hollywood's obsession with superheroes. Back in the 90s, there pretty much weren't superhero movies and when we all heard there was going to be an X-Men and Spider-Man movie, it was honestly something of a dream come true that nobody would have known would have worked as a movie (also, X-Men would have worked for your argument) and when they became runaway successes, it just opened the doors. Keep in mind that for a lot of people, superhero movies weren't a thing until the last 15 years and we never would have dreamed it would become such a phenomenon that was treated with so much respect, because holy shit, you just didn't admit to liking superheroes, and a bunch of us grew up with animated Saturday morning cartoons and that's all we were getting. So, flash forward to when Marvel really buckled its pants and started hinting that its cinematic universe was all connected - it was inconceivable and super amazing. When the Avengers was announced, it was basically the pinnacle of everything anybody who grew up watching those cartoons could have ever wanted but never in 100 years thought would be possible. And it happened, and it met and exceeded expectations.

You really have to understand that the Avengers was really a groundbreaking movie that took a looooong time to get to, and it was something most of us never thought was ever going to be a reality.

Aren't a lot of people angry that her value as a woman is weighed by her ability to give birth, and that she became a love interest (for possibly no logical reason)? Or something like that?

I haven't watched the movie yet, but that's roughly what I gathered from all the angry tumblr blogs. Going to refrain from having an opinion until I've seen the movie myself, though.

To be fair, when isn't Tumblr irrationally angry at everything and anything related to women, racial minorities, and gender representation?

 

[Zachary-Sama]

(Avengers, Batman Vs. Superman, Justice League, Suicide Squad, Captain America: Civil War, etc.)

Yeah, a lot of superhero/comic book movies and shows are coming out lately. Maybe even a bit too much.

 

[Pachamac]

see, i don't think the hulk x widow crack pairing was sexist.

i think it was a crack pairing.

because it came literally out of nowhere.

at the end of the movie, i still didn't feel it.

just like i didn't feel that Avengers 2 met the bar set by Avengers 1.

so overall, this isn't sexism.

its general quality fail.

because Avengers 1 is a tough act to follow, even for Joss "Geek God" Whedon.

and it just wasn't as good as Avengers 1.


admittedly, part of it is because Avengers 1 was the first super hero team up on the silver screen ever.

All of this.

Pairing was weak and left me completely unconvinced. I didn't feel chemistry between the two characters whatsoever.

 

[Dervish]

Yeah, a lot of superhero/comic book movies and shows are coming out lately. Maybe even a bit too much.

I just edited in a bunch more to kind of explain why the Avengers was a big deal for a bunch of us, check it out!

Also, I actually am entirely in agreement. There's been over 50 Marvel and DC movies since 2000, and there's another 25+ in production. I am pretty much cherry picking what I watch now.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

And I believe Tony's first words when he first saw her strength and qualifications were "I want one".

Ermagawd! Female Objectification you Cis-Gendered White Male Scum! :P

I'm sorry... but that was just too easy.

 

[Peter Feels]

admittedly, part of it is because Avengers 1 was the first super hero team up on the silver screen ever.

Not quite right.

 

[Zachary-Sama]

Ermagawd! Female Objectification you Cis-Gendered White Male Scum! :P

I'm sorry... but that was just too easy.

Actually, you can either say that "I want one" is sexist, or a form of empowerment, saying that she is desired for her skills.

"Counter attack!"

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Actually, you can either say that "I want one" is sexist, or a form of empowerment, saying that she is desired for her skills.

"Counter attack!"

*SJW has immunity to Logic!*

*Uses Angry Hashtags*

 

[Zachary-Sama]

When the Avengers was announced, it was basically the pinnacle of everything anybody who grew up watching those cartoons could have ever wanted but never in 100 years thought would be possible. And it happened, and it met and exceeded expectations.

XD I never heard of the avengers until the Disney XD cartoon that came out just before the Avengers movie. But yeah. I've avoided a lot of superhero movies (Unless Underdog Counts XD.). I have been watching the x-men movies, though. Since the new ones kind of merged with the old in days of future past, and since the actor for Wolverine has NEVER changed. I also like the several Wolverine run-off movies. X-men origins, The Wolverine, they are just great. I love learning about Wolverine's vast history, because not even he knows how old he is, due to his practical immortality. I remember watching the episode of Big Bang Theory where Sheldon and Howard were arguing over Wolverine's Bone claws and Sheldon said "Wolverine never had bone claws" I was like "Sheldon.. Sheldon!! You really didn't know something about a superhero?!" And when he picked up the xmen origins comic I was laughing my ass off.

 

[Zachary-Sama]

*SJW has immunity to Logic!*

*Uses Angry Hashtags*

*Blocks you on Twitter* Hashtags are ineffective!
*Shoots magical knowledge of reverse sexism* Magical Rainbows!