Interracial Dating

[Astaroth]

I think identifying with the culture you're brought up in (say, if you are a white kid adopted into and raised by a Vietnamese family) or marry into is totally a legitimate thing. If you are just describing yourself as transethnic Japanese because you watched anime and knew you were Japanese on the inside, though... ugggh. Why.

 

[Space Cowboy]

I think identifying with the culture you're brought up in (say, if you are a white kid adopted into and raised by a Vietnamese family) or marry into is totally a legitimate thing. If you are just describing yourself as transethnic Japanese because you watched anime and knew you were Japanese on the inside, though... ugggh. Why.

Mother is white American from the state of Georgia-- a country-girl, if you will.

Father is Laotian born-and-raised outside Vientiane and dealt with Vietnam War fallout.

I am the product of what is talked about in this thread, and man, you guys. It's rough.

It is hard being a Mixed Kid.

One side hates you on a good day, on a bad day you don't know which side to embrace (and you go through awkward years of shunning the other, yes you do), and then there are times when you just aren't readily accepted, and let's not forget the moments you're mistaken for an entirely different ethnicity, period. I can't tell you how many times I've had people walk up to me and start speaking Spanish. Or that I got looked at twice for being "Muslim looking."

It was rough.

And let's not talk about dating. I heard the horror stories from my mom, in particular. My dad just got told that "all white girls are whores." For me personally, a lot of girls I liked (which were white) weren't into the whole "dating non-white guys" thing. Which... Sucked. A lot.

Man.

AMA.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

you're agreeing the thing happens and that it is a Bad Thing but you don't want to use that particular label for it

Not if you're using the term to demand people stop practising _____ culture because they are of ______ race.
Which is what I've seen the term "Cultural Appropriation" used for every single time.

And to address the elephant in the room I leave by saying that.
It's different than say Feminism, where you can find a history of well meaning feminists, and still many good ones today despite the extremists.
But with Appropriation? There has been no positive equivalent, it's just been used to shame people for exploring other cultures.

If the label starts being used to educate people rather than shun people? Then I might adopt the term.
Until then though, I'm going to refrain from using it.

+Should be noted it seems that our disagreement is just semantics, our views seem to be the same regardless of the terms we use for it.

I think identifying with the culture you're brought up in (say, if you are a white kid adopted into and raised by a Vietnamese family) or marry into is totally a legitimate thing. If you are just describing yourself as transethnic Japanese because you watched anime and knew you were Japanese on the inside, though... ugggh. Why.

This might be the one exception I give to my earlier post.
But even then, I'd be cautious to call it trans-X rather than simply saying:

"I have Canadian ancestry, but was raised Vietnamese" or "I am American, but married a Japanese person and now relate deeply to and practice Japanese Culture".

Edit: Or in a case like Seiji's "I have X and Y ancestry".

 

[Sirona]

I don't think it's a thing at all.

As I am speaking of appropriation, I am speaking of it in terms of the following definition: "the action of taking something for one's own use, typically without the owner's permission." This came from a google query "define:appropriation"

Then cultural appropriation can be seen as one culture taking something from another, typically without the culture's permission. I would extend this by also adding that it occurs typically without the culture appropriating understanding the origin or cultural background which resulted in the thing being appropriated.

The argument isn't that appropriation is inherently good or bad, but that it exists and can be bad; when it is bad, it is important to call it out.

I'm not arguing that. It definitely relates to the topic at hand.
I'm just saying that I personally don't really view it as being much of a thing.

But clearly others disagree, hence the whole reason discussions about this stuff happens in the first place. :)

I'd honestly wouldn't call something like that appropriation, but rather just a lack of information.
You get that problem in all kinds of things, people get false info, they jump on the first thing they hear, maybe they just grabbed something cool or convenient, they have bias towards/against certain sources or individuals etc.

You misunderstand; it is appropriation precisely because of of a lack of information. The use of something without understanding or respecting its origins or meaning in its original form.

But instead of going "This is appropriating! Cut it out!" I think just taking the attempt to explain to them what's being shown wrong would be far more beneficial.
Does that always work? No, humans love to stay in biases. But that's also just something freedom of speech and expression comes with, people are going to spread false/ignorant stuff.

I think you're oversimplifying and misunderstanding; calling out appropriation is the attempt to explain that it's wrong. "What you're doing is appropriating something from this culture; the way you are using this, it's offensive and disrespectful. You're ignoring what this means."

While there may be people who simply toss out the term without following through, it seems unfair to categorize all uses of the term in the way you are now.

In the example of using native american imagery in sports logos and mascots, I will admit the issue doesn't only lie with appropriation, but also the perpetuation of racist stereotypes or slurs.

However, although a lie might be much faster to spread, the truth has the endurance to stand the test of time.
So I wouldn't get too worried about stuff like your example, in time people will smarten up and get more aware.
As long as there's individuals still out there trying to educate that is.

I suppose one doesn't have to get worried if one is a part of a dominant culture that only profits from appropriation.

The only way people "smarten up" is through people saying "Hey, this is cultural appropriation; don't do that, it's not okay." People don't spontaneously change minds and say "oh right, what we've been doing for so long is wrong!" It takes people taking action to make change.


I'm no expert, and I feel @govangogh has a better grasp on it. A big factor in why it is seen as problematic and as needing to be addressed is enjoying the benefits of a culture without facing any of the drawbacks.

 

[Astaroth]

@Sirona @Gwazi Magnum

Careful, guys, we're straying off topic. This thread isn't about whether cultural appropriation is a legitimate thing.


Re: the transethnic thing, yeah, I think transethnic is sort of a weird way of putting it. The white kid adopted by Vietnamese parents in my scenario, for instance, could legitimately just call themselves Vietnamese and be done with it as far as I'm concerned. (Of course, sometimes people would want explanations, but those are always going to be simpler than trying to explain the idea of transethnicity.)

 

[Space Cowboy]

I know a white person adopted by Samoans.

 

[Dervish]

Simplified,

Appropriation: Taking something for self-interested reasons without consideration of those it belonged to.

Adopting: Wishing to become a part of something because you understand and appreciate its values and wish to associate alongside it.

People adopting other cultures would be something like an immigrant acclimating to the new country's culture, or embracing a loved one's native culture. Appropriating it would be like the native imagery being used in the ways Sirona mentioned.

In short, appreciating is good. Exploiting is bad.

 

[Sirona]

@Astaroth While I agree the thread isn't itself about the legitimacy of cultural appropriation, cultural appropriation certainly plays a role in interracial dynamics, including relationships.

For example, if a white man is dating a black woman, is it ok for him to use parts of black culture? If so, what parts?
It probably depends on where he lives and what the woman thinks.

It can be a real problem in certain couples.

 

[Astaroth]

@Sirona

True. Just remember that we shouldn't get carried too far away from talking about it in that context, y'know?

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Ok, I went ahead and moved the discussion to a new thread here.