Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Gwazi Magnum, Apr 3, 2015.

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  1. Now that I got you here with that shock value title.
    Who wants to help a cause to speak against the passed bill that allows discrimination against LGBT people?

    Fundraiser here :3

    That is all.
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  3. Not even surprised they passed another bill like that. It's just sad, man.
  4. All good movements are going to have those who dig their heels in and try to fight back.
    They'll be trumphed sooner or later though, and history will look back on them the same way we now look back at things like Black racism.
  5. Well, that's true enough. But I honestly doubt it'll happen within my lifespan, simply because the resistance is so ridiculously strong. It's still illegal to be anything but heterosexual and cis in a large number of countries, and religious extremists are damn near impossible to reason with. Ignorance, intolerance, and a serious lack of understanding is usually the perpetrators in matters like these.

    But, eh, when you see this stuff on a daily basis and experience it first hand, you learn to deal with it. It'll pass at one point or another, but it's still really sad to see people spew hate and bigotry like that.
  6. Remember it was less than 50 years ago where Martin Luther King got shot for speaking up for Black rights.
    LGBT (at least in first world nations) are already at a point where it's legal in places, and no one would dream of shooting a public speaker like that.
    Basically it may seem like it's going to take a long ass time, but I'm positive we'll see the change completed before our life spans end.

    As for 3rd world countries?
    That's a bit more of a wild card, a lot more variables are in play in regards to how quickly said country can improve and evolve overall.
  7. I apologize, I'm on the side of religion, but I do not like this whole idea of discrimination over who you prefer to do. Honestly, it just an issue that's bigger than it should be in my eyes, gay rights is just as stupid as straight rights to me, I don't care about your bed, and I really don't wanna hear how good intercourse was with your Jane or your Bob, thank you very much. It's nowhere near similar in my eye to racism or sexism you can't change your skin or gender (well the latter you can, but any who, and I'm sure skin color change is only a few years away anyway), but I don't think people should really be that noisy. If they have a room, you shouldn't go in there anyway. Isn't that what the saying is for anyway?
  8. I'm curious as to how so?
    They're all things you're born as without any say or choice in the matter.
    That would be biological sex you're thinking of then, not Gender identity.

    Biological sex = What genitalia/body one was born with.
    Gender Identity = How one feels and identifies internally
    To my knowledge the only person to pull this off has been Michael Jackson. :P
    That's fair enough.
    But once said information is out there how does that justify discriminating against them over it?
  9. This is coming from a Christian point of view, so I'm not sure what you think of it. I mean no offense, but this could be seen as a disclaimer, I suppose, if you deem by my viewpoint that I'm not legitimate, I understand, I'm probably incapable of thinking this for what it truly is because of my lens.

    First, I meant to say nosy, not noisy. Hopefully that clears up my intention.

    Anyways, I don't see it as similar because to me, it's a mental viewpoint of an act we really should never be interested in in the first place. It is a personal choice, whereas your mostly stuck with your gender or race. I don't think there should be discrimination over what I see is a trivial issue, because there are worse issues at hand than whether that man sleeps with another man or a woman. It is his choice, why do you care so much? Are you jealous because you want Steve too, but you don't want your friends calling you a homo? Sex in general has so much more drama stuck on it than it should, it just seems to me that we want to make issues of trivial things because of who knows what reason. Getting more rights because of what you are? Getting more money to get your rights activists to shut up? Make straight white Christian men pay for their ancestors' sins by making them the demons of modern day society? It's simply an issue blown way out of proportion, and people love eating up drama.
  10. I think you're not entirely aware of what "gay rights" really mean. It doesn't mean we get special rights, like churches not paying tax. It means we don't want to be denied basic human rights, just because we love somebody of the same sex. A heterosexual person wouldn't be denied treatment in a hospital, or denied service at a restaurant or store, and a heterosexual person wouldn't be spat on, verbally abused, beat up and get kicked out of their home, because of their sexuality. Sexuality is about as much of a choice as skin colour or ethnicity.

    We don't want special rights, we want to be considered human and have the same rights as straight people. This doesn't just apply to us gay people, it also stretches to every other branch of the LGBT spectrum.
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  11. Noted.
    I figured that's what you meant.

    Though I now have a rather hilarious (and dirty) image in my head. XD
    I just feel the need to state that up to this point there's nothing we seem to be disagreeing with.
    And this is where disagreements start.

    Though this being the internet, I have a inkling as to what might be causing this so I'm going to make a clarification first.
    (Note: While typing this out it dawns on me I may not word this well, so if there's confusion please ask for clarification. I mean no hostility with what follows).

    Up above you've disclaimed already that you're a Christian, which is fine in my books. There are a lot of cool people I know that are Christian (one of them being the reason I found my way onto Iwaku).
    But obviously you would still want me to treat you like everyone else correct? A rationale, decent and moral human being? Not like some insane extremist such as say the westboro baptist church?
    "Gwazi, why are you mentioning religious extremeism?" you might be asking by now. My reasoning is to address that there are extremist from your own position so you can better understand what I'm going to tackle next.

    When I mention the LGBT community, Gay rights etc I am not referring to SJW Tumblrist of the Internet.
    Those who march around shouting crap such as "White Straight Male Privilege!" or something you might have received "Christian Privilege".
    These hateful extremists, the one's who seem to have a personal vendetta against any non-minorty are not the mentality I'm referring to when I mention gay rights.
    I am referring to your every day LGBT person, the one who lives along side us, interacts and get's along with us and are all around cool and amazing people.

    *Clarification over*

    Now, back to the disagreement.
    The LGBT community is not demanding 'more rights'. They're demanding 'equal rights'.
    Because how you and I may be able to legally get married to someone of the other sex easily, LGBT people cannot do the same for the same sex.
    It is something both the government and the church go out of their way to inconvenience and prohibit.
    They don't want special laws or rules just for them, they just want the ability to marry the person they love like the rest of us do.

    And then in regards to issues like service?
    Once again, you and I could go into any store with our other sex partner and be treated completely fine.
    No hate, no questions asked etc. But LGBT people can't do the same often.
    Now you could say "But that's just social issues. There will always be dickish people", and you'd be right.
    But the issue here is that it's not just a social issue, it has been passed into law where they can be discriminated against and denied service over it.
    Over a private relationship/marital matter that is not in any way the business of the one refusing to give service.
    I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to here exactly.
    I haven't seen any protests or movements designed to take money away from non-LGBT people.
    For this I'll have to mainly refer back to my "Everyday LGBT, not Tumblrism LGBT" clarification above.

    But now focusing our lenses on the non-tumblrists, the only 'payment' I can notice are getting simple apologies out of those who have gone out of their way to bring harm or hatred to LGBT people.
    I haven't seen most LGBT people target people simply for being Christian, hell there are a lot of LGBT people who are Christian themselves, even in places like Pride Clubs.

    Quite simply put, if Person A acts hatefully/harmfully towards someone for being LGBT, then the LGBT community will want an apology, Christian or not.
    If Person A is fine with LGBT people and has no ill wishes, then the LGBT community will be accepting of then, Christian or not.
    #11 Gwazi Magnum, Apr 3, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
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  12. I fully agree with this. I just find it that the discrimination exists in the first place. I just simply wanted to say that I was a Christian who believed in this, and I find it appalling to see when someone is treated less or more than what they are based on what they believe or are. In my belief, everyone should be loved, and everyone had their flaws, and pisses each other off once in a while. No one is perfect, a lesson Christ taught the Pharisees well.

    I don't go to church, btw, and the church is just a building to me, anyway. You can have church anywhere, in my opinion. So that little jab wasn't quite effective.
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  13. I was just thinking of the Al Sharpton rights activists. Those rights activists in ferguson, who just sit at places and disrupt cities, or just completely riot and pillage the city their in. Disregard that, it's a different topic. I just got a bad apple, and proceeded to dis the rest of the bunch.
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  14. "I consider this moral spring cleaning."

    *sounds of applause*
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  15. LGBT people obviously cannot be given the same rights as heterosexual people because then heterosexual couples would be discriminated and denied marriage. What's worse, going to church would become illegal and Christians would be hunted down like animals.

    The saddest part is, I've actually come across people that make claims like this and are completely serious.
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  16. Lol.
  17. Because people are ridiculous.

    Just about the only reason you need.
  18. Yep. #Sumsitup
  19. Being raised to believe dogmatic beliefs without any form of questioning tends to do that to people.
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