How Dark Are You? (a fun litle quiz I run across)

[Gwazi Magnum]

Ironically. Non-profit organisations live and breathe manipulation, because they require donations to continue to exist and do what they do. A corporation can technically get by with a good product. Charities, on the other hand.

I can second this. My Mom used to be the head of ASO (Autism Society Ontario).

They used a ton of heart pulling on people to 'inspire' them into helping.
As well as a lot of 1$ carnival games with prizes that were worth at most a quarter.

 

[Marchosias]

Also;

Ironically. Non-profit organisations live and breathe manipulation, because they require donations to continue to exist and do what they do. A corporation can technically get by with a good product. Charities, on the other hand.

Wel of corse, corruption is a factor. Hence vhy I sayed I can be moderately sure its a positive influence. But even thats a improvement over corporate manipulation, vhich is alvays aimed to drain the ordinary ppl dry, in the sleaziest posible way. Basicly I see non-profit organizations as the lesser of 2 evils. The less money and power involved, the higher the chance of a good influence. Power corupts.

Also, theres a big diference betwen donations, and corporate greed. Non-profit organization, like you sayed, need the bare minimum of donations to keep going. Its not about money for them, its about having the resorces at all do do something. Corporations already have a massive financial base, but its never enogh for them. Pure greed for power.

 

[Marchosias]

I can second this. My Mom used to be the head of ASO (Autism Society Ontario).

They used a ton of heart pulling on people to 'inspire' them into helping.
As well as a lot of 1$ carnival games with prizes that were worth at most a quarter.

But they were trying to do something positive (I assume your mom realy had the best interest of autistic ppl in mind), and they needed resorces to do it. Hence... I dont have a problem vith that. This is the kind of manipulation I'd rank as "beneficial influence". And I say that, not being that much of a "bleeding heart". :P

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

But they were trying to do something positive (I assume your mom realy had the best interest of autistic ppl in mind), and they needed resorces to do it. Hence... I dont have a problem vith that. This is the kind of manipulation I'd rank as "beneficial influence". And I say that, not being that much of a "bleeding heart". :P

Well yes it's with good intentions, so that would be a point in favour of charities over businesses.
However with that being said good intentions =/= good outcomes.

(Note: Looking ahead this is just me talking about personal observation/perspective. Though granted that's been a lot of this thread so far. And when that sort of stuff is under a debate? Things get messy fast, so let's just keep this at sharing personal findings rather than some battle of wit as to who can out argue the other. :P)

For example those tactics I just mentioned above? I've also seen her use them outside of ASO related things, and once I saw it in action when not under the veil of "for the children" it was a lot more cruel than I expected. For the 'inspire' people to help part is something she would describe at pulling at their hearts, making them feel and want to help. But what I personally found it to be was closer to guilt trips, taking points and information about people she knows they're sensitive about and then pulling and twisting it until they feel bad enough about themselves to basically lower their head, admit defeat and get on board. Like I have a friend of mine walk out of the house before, and refuse to enter again to this day unless if she's away at work because she did that to him.

So even if it's done with good intentions, that doesn't necessarily make it a good tactic.

+Should be noted as far as ASO is concerned. They did actually suffer from some executive reshuffling a few years ago, old group (including my Mom) got kicked out completely. At the time as a kid I looked at that as "What a bunch of ungrateful dicks". But now having seen the tactics used in a different setting? I wouldn't be surprised if she tried the thing I mentioned above on one of the newer people, had it backfire and caused a shit ton of drama among the staff. Which if we're talking strictly tactics and not morality would also show another problem, if you rely on such tactics to work it might work for a time. But you don't exactly build up a good team community or environment if stuff like Guilt and Pain are being used to keep people in line. Eventually people snap, and things go haywire.

 

[Kestrel]

The less money and power involved, the higher the chance of a good influence. Power corupts.

Also, theres a big diference betwen donations, and corporate greed. Non-profit organization, like you sayed, need the bare minimum of donations to keep going. Its not about money for them, its about having the resorces at all do do something. Corporations already have a massive financial base, but its never enogh for them. Pure greed for power.

But they were trying to do something positive (I assume your mom realy had the best interest of autistic ppl in mind), and they needed resorces to do it. Hence... I dont have a problem vith that. This is the kind of manipulation I'd rank as "beneficial influence".

This basically comes down to you saying that an end justifies the means. Charities can play Vivaldi's fours seasons on people's heartstrings and it's at least moderately positive, but if even a fraction of the same influence is used by anyone with even the slightest of self-interest, we're dealing with Mammon reincarnate.

I don't think there's much to gain from this discussion for either of us. Have fun, but I'm out.

 

[Marchosias]

This basically comes down to you saying that an end justifies the means. Charities can play Vivaldi's fours seasons on people's heartstrings and it's at least moderately positive, but if even a fraction of the same influence is used by anyone with even the slightest of self-interest, we're dealing with Mammon reincarnate.

I don't think there's much to gain from this discussion for either of us. Have fun, but I'm out.

You mised the point. I sayed charities are the lesser of 2 evils. Thats all. As for them manipulating ppls heartstrings - wel now, that again brings us to how much any person allows them-selvs to be manipulated. If someones a weak-minded type vho wil give their last coin to them, thats their problem. But if one has any common-sense, I'd say that can easyli be avoided. Example: I get a phone-call vith someone asking for donations for a good cause. I do 2 things: 1 I do some research on the "good" cause in question, to make sure they'r legit. 2, if they are, I'l give a smal donation. Thats all. Next day/week, they call again, cadging for more. I'l semi-politely remind them they already caled, I already gave, and that they can lay off this phone, because they are wasting time, I vont give any more money. I dont care if they are Mother Teresa re-incarnates, I'l only donate once, to any given cause. No more then once.