How Dark Are You? (a fun litle quiz I run across)

[Gwazi Magnum]

Take a guess as to who suggested the site to Brovo ;p

... Was it Diana? :3

 

[Kestrel]

... Was it Diana? :3

You're talking to him.

You're welcome.

Also I googled it. So you're still SEO's bitch by proxy ;)

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

You're talking to him.

You're @Diana! No way! :3

Also I googled it. So you're still SEO's bitch by proxy ;)

 

[Kagayours]

Personally I had this suggested to me by @Kaga-kun, who heard of it via Migration.

So you can blame either her or @Brovo for that one. XD

*blink blink* ...I don't know why I've been summoned or what this has to do with manipulation.

And, as for you joining Iwaku, I'm not sure I'd even say it was a suggestion as much as me moving my RP over and you coming along because of that. XD

Yes, I did put the move to a vote amongst the RP members, but, yeah, I'm still not sure it really counts as "suggesting" the site to you. XD

FUN FACT THOUGH!!! I didn't hear about Iwaku from Brovo's migration. I didn't even hear about it through the grape vine by someone else who had migrated indirectly because of Brovo. I actually first came to Iwaku because I had some RP buddies that came here during the initial Guildfall and were seeking refuge during the month-long downtime, then moved here permanently when they realized the site had been wiped (which is why my Iwaku join date pre-dates that of a lot of the other Guild migrators here). But, that RP group was very clique-like, and talk of moving stayed pretty much between us, and I didn't hear much talk about others moving until months later when newGuild development came to a standstill. It's true that, by the time I considered moving WBttG, I had heard about other Guildees moving here, but, that hearsay alone wasn't what brought me (and, by extension, you) here. :P

So if you want to get really technical, you should be blaming either me or @Cheshire (the sort-of leader of the aforementioned RP clique and the one who personally contacted me about Iwaku), not Brovo, but I don't think she's too active around here anymore.

 

[Shadon Xarian]

Allot of them I found situational and left in the middle. Like the "Keeping secrets" Some secrets are good, and some are bad to say.



Now for self reflection ^^

Machiavellianism-
That definition was odd to find. Not much to say with that though. I think there should be a balance of logic and feels... And that scale is dead in the middle. So seems legit. (If I read the right definition XP)

Narcissism-
Kinda shocked Narcissism is that high. I never did look at myself in a higher light. Things I knew I couldn't do, I always just happened to have a buddy that specialized in just that (Like my body builder friend or my artist friend) Both are far superior to me in those regards.
I do nothing but help people most the time without expecting anything in return (BUT that doesn't mean that I don't want anything in return. Bugs me when people can't even return simple favors due to being lazy/selfish RIGHT after I help them with major projects of their life >.<)
Then again though it's probably talking about other things... Lately I've been being made aware that I'm more amazing that I thought I was. Example is things I thought anyone could do no problem and I didn't find very special are things that most people tend to struggle with majorly. Could be that I always compared myself with the best and only focusing on what they can do, not seeing/ignoring the limits of the average Joe. Despite knowing that though, I still feel a major need to get far stronger and better than I am now even know I seem to be pretty above average all things considered. Nobody's pressuring me either, I have no reason to have to improve myself... Maybe that's the problem though XP

Psychopathy-
You know, the way a good handful of people talk to me, I would think for sure i'm a complete psychopath. Then again, that is only just a small handful, there is that majority other says I'm just fine. So I'll assume the meter is that high because of my need/want for a bit of chaos, but it's only just a little to keep things fresh and entertaining, nothing too harmful, but "Harmful" enough to warrant being in low purple instead of blue I guess XP

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

*blink blink* ...I don't know why I've been summoned or what this has to do with manipulation.

And, as for you joining Iwaku, I'm not sure I'd even say it was a suggestion as much as me moving my RP over and you coming along because of that. XD

Yes, I did put the move to a vote amongst the RP members, but, yeah, I'm still not sure it really counts as "suggesting" the site to you. XD

FUN FACT THOUGH!!! I didn't hear about Iwaku from Brovo's migration. I didn't even hear about it through the grape vine by someone else who had migrated indirectly because of Brovo. I actually first came to Iwaku because I had some RP buddies that came here during the initial Guildfall and were seeking refuge during the month-long downtime, then moved here permanently when they realized the site had been wiped (which is why my Iwaku join date pre-dates that of a lot of the other Guild migrators here). But, that RP group was very clique-like, and talk of moving stayed pretty much between us, and I didn't hear much talk about others moving until months later when newGuild development came to a standstill. It's true that, by the time I considered moving WBttG, I had heard about other Guildees moving here, but, that hearsay alone wasn't what brought me (and, by extension, you) here. :P

So if you want to get really technical, you should be blaming either me or @Cheshire (the sort-of leader of the aforementioned RP clique and the one who personally contacted me about Iwaku), not Brovo, but I don't think she's too active around here anymore.

Oh... That's some coincidence then. XD

 

[Cpt Toellner]

I'm not evil.

I just want everyone to live in my perfect world.

 

[Weegee]

Moderately nefarious

 

[Marchosias]

While certain persons are more impressionable than others, you and me too, are being manipulated in many facets of our lives. I think it's important to understand manipulation isn't inherently evil. For example, most of us ended up on Iwaku because it scores pretty decently in search engines when searching for roleplaying sites. In other words, many of us are here because Iwaku shows up higher on google than other sites, thereby influencing our decision what site to join. This is manipulation.

We benefit off of manipulation more than you might think. For example, a supermarket in the Netherlands has this bonus card. You can get it for free and whenever a product is on sale and you show the card at the cashier you can get a nice discount. ie; it saves you money. Why would the supermarket use this bonus card system? Because having a physical item you carry around you in your wallet also reinforces brand loyalty to that supermarket. You open your wallet; it's there. The brand name. Even though on paper, the only thing it should really do is get you discounts.

Likewise, sales can be used to promote a product. Say the same supermarket puts a new brand of, I don't know, cookies on the shelves. Most people are creatures of habit, mostly buying the same things over and over. However, when there is a sale, they might be more willing to try something new. And if they like it, they may continue to purchase it even after the sale has ended. This form of manipulation benefits both the consumer and the supermarket.

And then there's the J.C. Penney's effect. Which basically means that people want to be manipulated by marketing because this manipulation makes their decisions feel better, even if they're not actually better. This is more common in clothing or electronics stores. People prefer buying a computer at 800 euros when they see there's a discount of 20% (making them think they saved 200 euros on a 1000 euro computer) versus the same computer that is always priced at 800 euros in a different store. Even though the second store is infinitely more honest with it's customers, people just don't feel as good about their purchase. I guess you can say this example is a little more evil, but at the same time, in a way it is exactly what the customer wants.

Long story short. Manipulation isn't inherently evil. It can be good as well as bad for the consumer and is more a part of society than anything else. Sometimes it is there to benefit us, or make us feel better about the same decision, just as much as it is for corporations to influence our patterns.

And thats vhere we disagree. I firmly belive all manipulation is negative, for the simple reason that it in-fringes on our freedom of thought and decision (of corse, if we let it, vhich is where critical thinking comes in, something most ppl sorely lack IMO). You want to know how I come to Iwaku? It had NOTHING to do vith google ratings or anything. It only had to do vith my - my - estimate on how active the site is, after I got a good look at it before I decided to join. I didnt come here on anyones recomendation, I didnt read any review, anything. I accidently run across it, among a score of other sites. I had a good long look at each one, before deciding on this one. Simple as that. I vasnt manipulated to join here in any way, shape or form.

Next example: I never picked up any "bonus cards" for supermarkets. And it vasnt from a lack of ofers (every time I buy more then 5 products at once, the cashier ofers me a card. I refuse each time). Its all just a marketing ploy, time-limited discounts for very specific products. Yes, great... assuming I buy them in time, and I NEED them at all? I wont buy them, and I dont need them. I know beter then to be manipulated by that. Also, discount sales for electronics and stuff? A-ah. I wil go all over the city, check out all the small specialized electronics stores, just to make SURE there isnt any place I can get the product even cheaper. And in 99% cases, I'l find a better deal, if I do some leg-work.

Next - sale-baits. Oh no... takes a lot more then a flashy "on sale" sign to get me to buy something new. I'm VERY much a creature of habit, and I dont break habits easy. I weigh all the pros and cons, vhether I need/want it or not, and THEN decide. If I need/want something, I'l buy it vhether its on sale or not, even pay more, if needed. If I dont need/want it, they can give it away for free, and I wont take it.

And finaly the J.C Penney's efect. I wont even coment on this, except to say it absolutly proves my point how most people are impresionable sheep. I can assure you, I dont want to be manipulated to buy ANYTHING. And I'm not. I ignore commercials, I dont vatch TV in general, I have ADblock active at ALL times on the net, I am not a slave to corporate marketing. The LAST thing I want to do is support those parasitic leeches. I go back to the previus example, Electronics and clothing - I'l scour the whole city, every obscure smal dealer, if necesary even travel abroad, to make sure I get the best posible deal on a product. Quality product if at all posible, one I wont have to replace in 2 months. And once I get it, I stick with it, until it gives out; I wont buy a new thing if the old one stil works. Example, I use a 4 years old smartphone. I have no intention of replacing it, as long as it works and does its job.

Long story short - manipulation works, if one is a consumer. I'm not. I'm a survivalist/esentialist. Therefore I am not manipulated, for the simple reason that my value-system isnt suseptible to it.

 

[Rain of the Night]

And thats vhere we disagree. I firmly belive all manipulation is negative, for the simple reason that it in-fringes on our freedom of thought and decision (of corse, if we let it, vhich is where critical thinking comes in, something most ppl sorely lack IMO). You want to know how I come to Iwaku? It had NOTHING to do vith google ratings or anything. It only had to do vith my - my - estimate on how active the site is, after I got a good look at it before I decided to join. I didnt come here on anyones recomendation, I didnt read any review, anything. I accidently run across it, among a score of other sites. I had a good long look at each one, before deciding on this one. Simple as that. I vasnt manipulated to join here in any way, shape or form.

Next example: I never picked up any "bonus cards" for supermarkets. And it vasnt from a lack of ofers (every time I buy more then 5 products at once, the cashier ofers me a card. I refuse each time). Its all just a marketing ploy, time-limited discounts for very specific products. Yes, great... assuming I buy them in time, and I NEED them at all? I wont buy them, and I dont need them. I know beter then to be manipulated by that. Also, discount sales for electronics and stuff? A-ah. I wil go all over the city, check out all the small specialized electronics stores, just to make SURE there isnt any place I can get the product even cheaper. And in 99% cases, I'l find a better deal, if I do some leg-work.

Next - sale-baits. Oh no... takes a lot more then a flashy "on sale" sign to get me to buy something new. I'm VERY much a creature of habit, and I dont break habits easy. I weigh all the pros and cons, vhether I need/want it or not, and THEN decide. If I need/want something, I'l buy it vhether its on sale or not, even pay more, if needed. If I dont need/want it, they can give it away for free, and I wont take it.

And finaly the J.C Penney's efect. I wont even coment on this, except to say it absolutly proves my point how most people are impresionable sheep. I can assure you, I dont want to be manipulated to buy ANYTHING. And I'm not. I ignore commercials, I dont vatch TV in general, I have ADblock active at ALL times on the net, I am not a slave to corporate marketing. The LAST thing I want to do is support those parasitic leeches. I go back to the previus example, Electronics and clothing - I'l scour the whole city, every obscure smal dealer, if necesary even travel abroad, to make sure I get the best posible deal on a product. Quality product if at all posible, one I wont have to replace in 2 months. And once I get it, I stick with it, until it gives out; I wont buy a new thing if the old one stil works. Example, I use a 4 years old smartphone. I have no intention of replacing it, as long as it works and does its job.

Long story short - manipulation works, if one is a consumer. I'm not. I'm a survivalist/esentialist. Therefore I am not manipulated, for the simple reason that my value-system isnt suseptible to it.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Next - sale-baits. Oh no... takes a lot more then a flashy "on sale" sign to get me to buy something new. I'm VERY much a creature of habit, and I dont break habits easy. I weigh all the pros and cons, vhether I need/want it or not, and THEN decide. If I need/want something, I'l buy it vhether its on sale or not, even pay more, if needed. If I dont need/want it, they can give it away for free, and I wont take it.

Clearly you don't use Steam. :P

Long story short - manipulation works, if one is a consumer. I'm not. I'm a survivalist/esentialist. Therefore I am not manipulated, for the simple reason that my value-system isnt suseptible to it.

You say this while using the Internet, on an RP Site, in their General Chatting section.
How is any of that essential to survival?

 

[Marchosias]

Clearly you don't use Steam. :P

You say this while using the Internet, on an RP Site, in their General Chatting section.
How is any of that essential to survival?

No, I dont use "Steam". Dont even know vhat that is. Let me gues, Some Net-based store? No thx. I prefer to buy stuff in real world, and see the product before I buy it.

And dont split hairs pretty boy! :D It helps me survive the boredom of over-doing it vith my RL hobbys at times. Even I get tired of real life on ocasion. The only time I got time to sit on here for long though, is vhile i work out, and post in resting phases betwen sets. About the only thing I can do at that time ofc, since I'm generaly so muscle-fatiged that typing is about the only exertion I can handle lol. Love those litle alert-prompts up in the corner, lets me see new stuff to reply to even vhen I'm acros the room.

 

[Shadon Xarian]

@Marchosias
Huh... Interesting view point on all that.

What even is manipulation? When I see a sale at a store, it's just them discounting their product to convince you to buy their stuff over others. You have the choice to choose where to buy regardless, just a matter of how you wanna do it. They expose their self to put them on your radar. That's how I see it.

some would argue that YOU'VE been manipulated to always hunt for the cheapest price as society has been told to go cheaper. manipulated to use ad-block as society decided that ad's are annoying and coorperations are evil. Manipulated into working out making you think beefy=better XP

How far is too far? You made the choice and didn't let them manipulate you? I have a question for you then.
To you, What's the difference between influence, and manipulation?

 

[Marchosias]

What's the difference between influence, and manipulation?

Good question. Very good one. Not much I supose, up to subjective opinion, except the term "influence" generaly denotes a more positive force, then "manipulation", for me. For instanse, I may sugest to someone that eating healthy is good for them, and back it up vith facts. Thats vhat I consider influence. Positive influence. There are negative influences, too ofc, but those, I consider manipulations. So yes, for me, the diference betwen influence and manipulation is betwen a benefical thing, and a nefarious thing.

They expose their self to put them on your radar. That's how I see it.

I see it more long-term. They build "brand-conciusness" that way. Sub-conciusly manipulating you to always choose their place over others, even vhen the others might be more afordable or have better quality products, just because you got a "good deal" there once, you wil be less inclyned to go anyvhere else, next time. Its not just a one-time deal for them.

Also, given a choise betwen a cheap, low-quality product, and a expensive hi-quality one, I'd choose the second every time. At least in case of stuff like electronics or home-aplyances or such. In the long run, the quality of the expensive product pays for itself many times over, vhile the cheap one usualy gives-out in 2 months. I look at alot more then price, when buying something important. For instanse, I have a refrigerator that is over 40 years old, inherited it from my grandparents' place. The thing NEVER broke down, NEVER had any kind of problems, and vorks perfectly even today. Thats what I call quality product, from a time vhen mind-less consumerism did NOT exist. In its day, it cost a fortune. But look how its repaying for itself even today.

 

[Shadon Xarian]

So basically, good is influence, bad is manipulation... I can get behind that. It's probably not technically correct, but is something I can get behind.

They build "brand-conciusness" that way.

You know what? I was thinking more say Wal-mart's blu ray, over Fred-Meyer/Kroger blu ray. Same exact thing, just different places to buy it.

As for specific brands like what you seem to be talking about, I might actually have to agree with you on that. All the dishonesty, lies ("Exaggerations") and stuff like that. I can name quite a bit of places that falls under just that -.- -.- -.-
Regardless though, those are the people that make the products I want, so I don't really have a choice in the matter... Well I guess I COULD just not buy it, but come on, I want it XD And when they sale bate me, well to me, that's just paying say 300 instead of 350. Or 10 dollars instead of 60. I'm not exactly a pure survivalist. I CAN be a esentialist just fine, but I don't want to XP

(As for steam, it's a nifty online gaming store for game downloads. I too, prefer physical stuff, but that doesn't really exist on PC anymore, at least in terms of gaming)

 

[Marchosias]

(As for steam, it's a nifty online gaming store for game downloads. I too, prefer physical stuff, but that doesn't really exist on PC anymore, at least in terms of gaming)

Lol that explains it, I'm not a gamer (I do play very select few computer games here and there, but only as a after-thoght or vhen I need some inspiration for a RP). Last time I buyed a game vas 2 years ago. XD No scratch that... I didnt even buy it as I recall, I dl'd it from a torrent site hehe.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Good question. Very good one. Not much I supose, up to subjective opinion, except the term "influence" generaly denotes a more positive force, then "manipulation", for me. For instanse, I may sugest to someone that eating healthy is good for them, and back it up vith facts. Thats vhat I consider influence. Positive influence. There are negative influences, too ofc, but those, I consider manipulations. So yes, for me, the diference betwen influence and manipulation is betwen a benefical thing, and a nefarious thing.

You know this means your disagreement with Kestrel was mainly Semantics right?

What he chose to call Manipulation you called Influence.
It was the same stuff just under a different polish.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Oh, and this is was a documentary I watched about a month back which I found very interesting.
And is also relevant to the topic at hand.

It basically goes on about the art of manipulation and influence in practices such as business, voting etc.

 

[Marchosias]

You know this means your disagreement with Kestrel was mainly Semantics right?

What he chose to call Manipulation you called Influence.
It was the same stuff just under a different polish.

Not realy. She seems to be of the opinion that the vhole concept of manipulation/influence/how ever you vant to call it is generaly positive. Hell, I even get the impresion she supports the kind of brain-games the corporations play on ppl. If thats a vrong impression, my mistake. I am of the opinion that manipulation is about 90% negative, except in certain very select cases. Oh thats right, and I shuld add that ANY manipulation/influence vhich is based on aquisition of profit, is suspect. Only time when I'l even consider going along with it, is if its done by a non-profit organization. Then, at least I can be moderately sure it is a positive influence.

 

[Kestrel]

Not realy. She seems to be of the opinion that the vhole concept of manipulation/influence/how ever you vant to call it is generaly positive.

Manipulation isn't inherently evil. It can be good as well as bad for the consumer and is more a part of society than anything else.

Also;

Only time when I'l even consider going along with it, is if its done by a non-profit organization. Then, at least I can be moderately sure it is a positive influence.

Ironically. Non-profit organisations live and breathe manipulation, because they require donations to continue to exist and do what they do. A corporation can technically get by with a good product. Charities, on the other hand.