How Americans thought wealth was distributed in the nation.

Wow, already descending to calling people fascists? What a slippery slope you are on!

People are paid more for a reason. No one complains about how much a CEO makes when he does his job. An employee's pay grade is totally a reflection of how much he is worth to the company, not how much an outsider thinks they are worth.

You think this is the first time I've classified fascists as fascists? I'm a social historian. This is what I do.

Also, now you sound like a cross of Gordon Gecko and J.D. Rockefeller.

Fucking Rockefeller, you guys -_-.
 
Moral of this story is Don't go into debt folks. Only spend what you have available to you and you'll never be broke.

:[ I really wish it were that easy. I can't get a better job without going to school. I can't afford school because I don't have a better job. I have "too much money" according to the government to qualify for any financial aid except for loans, yet I can barely afford a bare-bones apartment. I am severely handicapped at school because I have to work full time to keep what I have, and even though I had a 4.0, I didn't get any scholarships because I didn't have "financial need". My hours have been getting cut, so I've had to borrow more money just to avoid being homeless.

CosmicWeinerDog, what do you suggest?
 
Hmmm. My Mod senses are tingling...

Tingle tingle...
 
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So yeah, in business people's skills (not lives, but thanks for that strawman) are worth something.

It's true. In Economics it's called Human Capital :P

I'm actually in agreement with Unanun here. I don't believe the wages should be determined by anyone but the company that issues them. I don't however believe it's entirely based on personal worth to the company though. There are things like Unions, Tenure, and personal politics that also have major roles in that.

:[ I really wish it were that easy. I can't get a better job without going to school. I can't afford school because I don't have a better job. I have "too much money" according to the government to qualify for any financial aid except for loans, yet I can barely afford a bare-bones apartment. I am severely handicapped at school because I have to work full time to keep what I have, and even though I had a 4.0, I didn't get any scholarships because I didn't have "financial need". My hours have been getting cut, so I've had to borrow more money just to avoid being homeless.

CosmicWeinerDog, what do you suggest?

This is actually a slippery slope, and to be honest I can't give you a direction as to how to live your life. It is, after all, your life and only you can make the proper informed decision as to how to run it. My stance however remains: Do not go into debt in today's economy, for any reason, period.

A lot of people will disagree with me on this point, and that's fine, it's just how I've managed to get by as well as I have.

At the moment, there is a fair decent amount of discussion going on as to if collage is worth the cost in Today's job market (Keep in mind, I am in no way turning down the importance of education today). In a nutshell, Economist are looking at the costs of collage and on top of that looking at the number of people who actually go on to do the job they hold degrees in. The % (while I do not have the number on hand) is surprisingly low. While some jobs do require specific branches of education, most jobs just look at the fact that you HAVE a degree when using it to fill an education quota.

When you take that into consideration and apply it to the fact that upon leaving collage, you're racked with debt and sometimes have no actual experience in the job market you're looking to put yourself into.... it's a bit depressing.

As for what I recommend? To be honest, I'd need to know more about your situation to give you my opinion. From the bare bones stance of it though... If you're going through collage right now on your own dime and you don't have the finances to support that and yourself, I'd honestly say you might considering putting school on the back burner for a bit in order to get back on your feet. You can always come back to it.

Debt always comes back to bite you. It's kinda the nature of the beast.

Use it up.

Wear it out.

Make it due.

Or do without.
 
Fox why don't you just work for a year or two without going to school, save up whatever money you get, and use that to go to college later on? I know, it's really not the ideal situation but it's better than failing the class and having to repeat it on top of working, and paying for rent.
 
Because, even working full time, that money goes to rent and food. I don't really have savings. It's paycheck-to-paycheck. In California, the cost of living is extremely high. Even if the minimum wage looks higher, it's not enough to make it on just that alone. Right now there's not really a way for me to "get back on my feet".

Besides, as for my current situation, my jobs are all tied up in school. xD As a school-hired tutor, if I don't take a minimum number of classes, I lose my job. It is the best paying job I can find, though. It gets me private appointments on the side that earn me between 20 and 25 dollars an hour which is completely unheard of to me. However, the work is completely unsteady, and I have been using that money to deal with the aforementioned hour cuts.

EDIT: Here is my personal rant. I feel like the government is looking me in the face and telling me that it is not my place to go to school (despite any sort of potential I have and the academic achievements I have made in the face of all of this - my grades are better than a lot of people who have no other commitments than school). I feel like the ONLY option I have is to build what I can, go up the ladder in some corporate job that I hate, and try to save enough so that a child of mine can go to school.

EDIT EDIT: This is what happens when I post in a bad mood! Consider this a rant. It doesn't really add to your discussion. :< My fields are chemistry and theoretical math. I have no idea how to fix the economy! I am here to roleplay, not rant. ^_^
 
Because, even working full time, that money goes to rent and food. I don't really have savings. It's paycheck-to-paycheck. In California, the cost of living is extremely high. Even if the minimum wage looks higher, it's not enough to make it on just that alone. Right now there's not really a way for me to "get back on my feet".

Besides, as for my current situation, my jobs are all tied up in school. xD As a school-hired tutor, if I don't take a minimum number of classes, I lose my job. It is the best paying job I can find, though. It gets me private appointments on the side that earn me between 20 and 25 dollars an hour which is completely unheard of to me. However, the work is completely unsteady, and I have been using that money to deal with the aforementioned hour cuts.

EDIT: Here is my personal rant. I feel like the government is looking me in the face and telling me that it is not my place to go to school (despite any sort of potential I have and the academic achievements I have made in the face of all of this - my grades are better than a lot of people who have no other commitments than school). I feel like the ONLY option I have is to build what I can, go up the ladder in some corporate job that I hate, and try to save enough so that a child of mine can go to school.

EDIT EDIT: This is what happens when I post in a bad mood! Consider this a rant. It doesn't really add to your discussion. :< My fields are chemistry and theoretical math. I have no idea how to fix the economy! I am here to roleplay, not rant. ^_^

That is a pickle. I'm sorry you're in such a bind.

California runs some really odd laws across the board, and to be perfectly honest, I'm really really glad I wasn't raised up there. Like I said, I can't really tell you how to go about that. I'm surprised you aren't having people offer scholarships or grant opportunities if you are making 4.0 grades. That's mind blowing.

Normally I'd say get in touch with a financial advisor and see if there is anything available for your demographic. If they don't know anything I'd recommend checking online for potential scholarships. If that's not a possibility... well.

I'd guess I'd recommend attempting to move to another school that isn't in such a financially strict district. Possibly out of state or the like. I know that sounds extreme, but you shouldn't be in that kind of corner if you're making those kind of grades. Start shopping around for an out of state university that would take most of your transfered credits and see what you can do there. There are plenty of schools out there who WOULD take a 4.0 student and would cover them depending on certain criteria.

Or, as Zen said, shop around your area for a job that isn't connected with your school in order to build back up your savings.
 
You think this is the first time I've classified fascists as fascists? I'm a social historian. This is what I do.

Also, now you sound like a cross of Gordon Gecko and J.D. Rockefeller.

Fucking Rockefeller, you guys -_-.

You sound you like to jump the gun and apply labels to people to dismiss their argument instead of going for the argument itself. I'm not even sure where you're on on the pyramid of debate, but you're certainly not at the apex.
 
Alright folks, we're on a touchy enough topic without shifting to direct attacks on each other. Lets calm things out a bit and focus on the topic at hand rather than each other.
 
Seems like the topic is getting too heated.. everyone should go try their hand at politics on Nationstates to see how they really do! The link to Nationstates is now right below in my siggy so Iwaku region will grow larger! All so if you squeak a few times you might feel better and not want to slap someone!
 
Question: Is all of the EU (that is socialist) hurting? And if so is that because they are socialist or because they are connected to other countries that failed or are failing?
 
Not all of em, but their backing currency has depreciated quite a bit lately. Germany's actually doing pretty decent last I checked even despite their debt...though they're also a constitutional republic and they've always had a pretty strong economic base. The thing about the European Union is it functions under what's Called Convergence Theory. Which is where a bunch of smaller countries with different governmental systems band together in order to create an overall better quality of life for citizens.

But enough of me spamming you with econ mumbo jumbo. Have some tasty news from the Huffington Post. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/countries-in-debt_n_1278711.html#slide=698317

Anywho, moral of this discussion is Germans are tough.


Edit: Ooh, I've been looking for this for a while.

So the way all of this is determined is by GDP, which is the Value of all goods and services created by a country's market in a given year.

The problem with looking at charts is you have two different kinds of Gross Domestic Product, Nominal and Real. The Nominal Gross Domestic Product measures the value of all the goods and services produced expressed in current prices. These look pretty on paper, but to the standard reader you're just basically looking at a bunch of numbers with nothing to base them on.

On the other hand, Real Gross Domestic Product measures the value of all the goods and services produced expressed in the prices of some base year. An example: Suppose in the year 2000, the economy of a country produced $100 billion worth of goods and services based on year 2000 prices. Since we're using 2000 as a basis year, the nominal and real GDP are the same. In the year 2001, the economy produced $110B worth of goods and services based on year 2001 prices. Those same goods and services are instead valued at $105B if year 2000 prices are used.

So that being said, the following link is the List of Countries by Real GDP Growth rate for 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_GDP_growth_rate_(latest_year)

For the sake of reference, America on average (not just for 2012) grows at a 2% increase of GDP every year. Not a lot, but not in the negative. Having a Negative GDP is bad news bears. That means the rate of your Gross Domestic Product is increasing slower than the rate of your population. Which means the country for lack of a better word is... well... Eating itself Pizza the hutt style.


Edit edit: Another another thing I remembered. Here's another nifty piece of semi depressing trivia about the difference between Real and Nominal figures:

Did you know that America's unemployment rate is not the 8% it's advertised at? It's actually quite a bit higher.

8% would be considered a Nominal figure. However what this doesn't take into consideration is that only takes into account the people in the country who are actively searching for employment. When a person becomes discouraged from the job market and decides to quit their search for a job, they become what's called a Discouraged Worker. Discouraged workers are not included in the figure when determining a countries unemployment rate. So when you hear that America's unemployment rate is falling... Yeah. Might not be entirely true and could instead be a means to skew facts with sound bites that look good on a voting ballot.

Fun facts are fun.

...I might be a bit of an Econ geek. >.>
 
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Cosmic does speak the truth. Keep it fucking civil, chums, or else I will shit upon you from a great height.

Germany also has the advantage of basically holding the EU's economic fortunes hostage, so they both are doing pretty well monetarily and get to dictate how other countries run their shit. In some parts of Europe it's pretty bad.

Don't believe me? In Italy, a comedian and a convicted felon are the two major electoral candidates. I shit you not.
 
Cosmic does speak the truth. Keep it fucking civil, chums, or else I will shit upon you from a great height.

Germany also has the advantage of basically holding the EU's economic fortunes hostage, so they both are doing pretty well monetarily and get to dictate how other countries run their shit. In some parts of Europe it's pretty bad.

Don't believe me? In Italy, a comedian and a convicted felon are the two major electoral candidates. I shit you not.

That's nothing new, In america Comedians and Felons try for major electoral positions all the time.

They're just generally not convicted yet!
 
That's nothing new, In america Comedians and Felons try for major electoral positions all the time.

They're just generally not convicted yet!

My home state governor is a felon. Actually a felon.

And my former mayor here in DC is, of course, well you know the rest.
 
This is what I have to put up with:



And then I get the first time I'm ever a DFD, and once my candidate's elected, she turns so -_-.

...Wow.

That's special.

What was the accusations brought up in the trial?