How about those O's.....Oh right, there's riots!

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

I've been back home for a little over a week, and apparently my hometown is falling apart! I am currently living outside of Baltimore City, but for a while I lived in the city, and while I will never claim that it's a great place, I feel the same sense of hometown loyalty as everyone else does. That is why it depresses the hell out of me to listen to the news.

By now I'm sure everyone has heard about the riots going on here, and how the Mayor of Baltimore essentially let these people get away with looting and rioting until the Governor finally put his foot down. For all of you who don't believe the news, yes it is true. The Mayor did tell the police to stand down and allow the 'protesters' to do as they wish. They had to take rocks to the face, their vehicles getting destroyed all without using any type of force at all.

Watching it happen live on the TV is depressing, but not nearly as depressing as knowing there is absolutely no reason for them to be doing what they are doing. If this was about Freddy Gray, than these people are complete and utter morons, because the investigation into what happened is now stalled because of them. The entire city police department, and the police of surrounding counties are too busy trying to keep the rioters from destroying everything in their path.

The media is really starting to piss me off as well. MSN posted a video of one of the cops throwing rocks back. Well what the fuck to you expect!?!?! There's a dozen cops and hundreds of idiots throwing rocks at them. Honestly, I think they should be using lethal force by now, but the stupid Mayor has given them free reign to destroy the entire city and for law enforcement to simply stand by and direct trafic.

What really pisses me off is that the focus on what really happened to Freddy Gray has been destroyed all because simple minded fools want to act like fucking animals. Yes, the cops fucked up and they even admitted it, but now instead of punishing those who were responsible for it, they rioters are keeping them from being reprimanded. Those officer responsible, are now on the streets. The poor man who should be shown respect is being used for people to rob, assault, and destroy. It sickens me, and how they use a person's death to act out of control.

 

[ASTA]

At this point in my life, I'm not even miffed (although "humble" citizens like those in Baltimore make being black in America EXCEEDINGLY difficult).

Observing the black community, particularly its lower socioeconomic sects, is like watching a semi-autonomous nation destroy itself from the inside out. Truly, all you can do is enjoy the decline, because if you so much as dare point out the group's dysfunction, you immediately become a coon, a sellout, or a race traitor. If you're white and you say something, you're a bigot or a racist!

Forget the fractured homes, the absolute lack of morals in the black community, the black community's AIDS/HIV epidemic, the black community's abortion epidemic, the broken marriage standard, the animosity that black men and black women have for one another, the lack of black businesses in black neighborhoods, the disgusting corruption that oozes from the black church, failing inner city schools, black-on-black crime (of which the primary victims are overwhelmingly black), the looming threat of automation, the threat of immigration, the growing anti-black sentiment in America, or the threat of inner city gentrification!

No, let's riot, pillage, and loot over some useless simpleton that had a rap sheet a mile long and that NO ONE really cares about because we're angry and we want an excuse to act like hooligans! The police did you lot a favor! Freddie sold crack to your own people!

Baltimore's transformation into Detroit 2.0 will take about five years.

Relevant:

 

[Rare]

Thank God, there is someone that I can agree with. I mean, such riots are fun to watch and be apart of; but, there is no reason to riot other than destroy stuff and say 'fuk da police' out loud.

I am not racist at all towards all races; but If I do speak against the rioters, I get call a 'cop supporter' or a 'racist'. Oh well, the cop were just doing their job, which was to protect citizens' lives. There are some cases where cops are in the wrong.

But, I also think that they are just trying to get 'equal rights' again in America. I mean, such the civil rights movement got blacks to be 'equal' like anyone race; but, they are still treated poorly. Maybe they thought that fighting back is the only answer, which seems like it in the year 2015.

 

[Hellis]

"I think they should be using lethal force by now,"


Are you out of your mind. The moment you are allowing police to move down people is the moment you get a fucking police state.

Should they have stood down? No. Is there a underlying sense of hopelessness that leads to this boilerpressure blowouts? Yes. You are gonna see more of it untill tangible change is seen. And riots always attract the wrong crows that use peoples anger against them. This isn't rational thinking, and it's epidemic.

Telling the police to use lethal force is gonna net you a far far worse situation then you can grasp.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

Maybe not lethal force, but they definitely should be able to defend themselves. These people are jumping on cars with people inside them, including police cruisers, burning down and looting stores with employees in them, and the fire hoses when the fire department shows up to put out the fires. Break out the pepper spray and rubber bullets! Don't force the police to stand there and do nothing while rioters throw bricks and rocks at them.

I don't understand the mayor's thinking. Telling the cops to do nothing at all, and wondering why things are so out of control. She has given these people the consent to destroy the city! The people who are out now, they're not protesting what was done to Freddy Gray. How is going into a mall and coming out with an arm full of clothes and boxes of shoes protesting? That's robbery and it's a crime.

Forcing the police to stand down and do nothing has only made things worse, and now they've called in the National Guard. I haven't watched the news yet this morning so I don't know how the night went, but I do know that before I went to bed the city looked like a war zone. You cannot let people like that run rampant and believe that they'll settle down on their own. Stupidity only breeds more stupidity. The more stupid people gather, the more they'll destroy.

 

[Brovo]

Are you out of your mind. The moment you are allowing police to move down people is the moment you get a fucking police state.

Not when it's being used as a response to violent assaults and rampant looting. It's one thing to protest and be civilly disobedient, it's another to tolerate rampant violence.

Also, no, I don't feel any pity that they're mad; of course they're mad. Almost every person who commits assault and murder is mad. Being mad is not an excuse to commit to mass violence and robberies, and it's absolutely disgusting that this flagrant display of hatred is tolerated. I would feel exactly the same if a mob of white people did it, or if a mob of women did it, or if a mob of clowns juggling cats did it: They're breaking the law, and people are getting hurt. Where is the line going to be drawn exactly? Murder? Rape? Cuz' I'm sure the cameraman that got his face bricked and his camera stolen didn't ask for that. I'm sure the 15+ police officers who were assaulted didn't ask for that. Does wearing a blue uniform make them any less victims?

When you start burning down businesses and assaulting people, that's where I draw the line: Fuck you and your shitty excuse to rampantly loot and assault people. You threw away your right to not having lethal force used the moment you beat someone down just to take their fucking camera. At the very least they should get hosed and have a spray of rubber bullets flying their way: Because I cannot imagine that if the skin tones were reversed, that anyone would be calling for anything less than bloodshed.

I don't understand the mayor's thinking. Telling the cops to do nothing at all, and wondering why things are so out of control.

Probably terrified of public backlash. I can see it now: "Mayor orders police to beat down blacks." Just imagine the sheer number of idiots that would declare it to be racist.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

Probably terrified of public backlash. I can see it now: "Mayor orders police to beat down blacks." Just imagine the sheer number of idiots that would declare it to be racist.

She'd be considered a self-hating African American than. X_x

Seriously though, I understood when it was the actual protesters who were being peaceful. They marched through the streets calmly, maybe disrupted traffic a bit and I'm sure annoyed a few people, but they didn't hurt anyone. Yes, I can understand telling the police to leave those people alone, but the minute someone started throwing rocks through windows the orders should have changed.

These people are no better than terrorists. Companies are allowing employees to stay home or remain in the office if they fear leaving the building. Employees are getting text messages warning them of groups of men with hoods and guns making their way around the city. Thousands of people were trapped at the stadium for hours because of what was going on, and quite a few came out with their vehicles damaged. These people aren't trying to make a point, they are scaring the hell out of innocent people simply because they can.

The National Guard has been called in, but like everyone is saying, it's going to get worse before it gets better. The people who are doing this don't seem to understand that if they were trying to make a point, and wanted people to hear them, they have already lost their case. Respect is earned, not given, and by showing such blatant disrespect to the entire community by destroying it, no one wants to hear anything they have to say.

 

[Hellis]

We'll see a few hours from curfew how bad this will really get. That's the tipping point.

 

[Jorick]

I don't understand the mayor's thinking. Telling the cops to do nothing at all, and wondering why things are so out of control. She has given these people the consent to destroy the city!

I figure she was probably trying to avoid the surge of rioting that followed police actions when this same thing was going down in Ferguson. Naïve as all hell to be sure, but it's not all bad that she tried a different approach.

As for the rioters themselves, they don't really give a shit about the guy who died. Same story as other recent riots. They claim anger over some black person being harmed and riots start, despite friends and family of the person pleading that sane and peaceful protests are the only good way to support the cause. The rioters don't just target the cops that are supposedly the sole source if their ire, and when they start going crazy they don't just target those pesky white devils either, in that they'll loot and burn places they know are owned by non-whites. The whole racial tension thing sets the stage, but the rioters are just a bunch of violent assholes looking to destroy and steal whatever they can. It's a minority of criminal shitlords who use the mob mentality of protests to start trouble.

The riots are the unwanted offspring of the protests rather than a real part of them, and they do the protest's cause great harm. It's like a parent going into a store to complain about high prices, then their child throws a tantrum and starts knocking things off the shelves. It's just fucking dumb, really.

 

[Hellis]

In other news. When Blood and Crips of all people are saying "This shit is to violent" then you might consider your fucking actions.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

In other news. When Blood and Crips of all people are saying "This shit is to violent" then you might consider your fucking actions.

Lol! I probably shouldn't have laughed at that, but I did.

It's funny though. The gangs are actually the ones sitting around doing the talking. Last night they were meeting with clergy and discussing things like civilized people. I was surprised, but it also kind of gives me hope that perhaps there's a chance the city can pull out of it without being completely destroyed in the process.

 

[Minerva]

I'll say what I heard during a bit on Ferguson on NPR where they went out and talked to citizens there:

"The People rioting, are from out of town, and do more damage to the people with jobs in town, and they don't care."

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

Someone made a very valid case for the people rioting and what should be done to them as punishment. This may sound a bit stereotypical, and I apologize for it in advance, but I do agree with it. The people rioting, most are young, and a good deal of them are obviously out of work/school. Whatever benefits they receive, whether it's welfare, disability, or unemployment should be stripped from them, and the money used to repair and clean up the damage they caused. I agree with this wholeheartedly. If they have time to loot and destroy property, they certainly have time to look for jobs, or take classes to better themselves.

The people who are from out of state/city should be fined heavily, although I still can't decide if they should be fined more than the citizens of Baltimore who participated. As outsiders, they don't have the same respect for the community as those who live in it do or should have, but then again, they also came here with the intention of destroying things. However, the people who live here should treat their home with far more respect, not just because they live here, but because their families and the others who live around them work hard to try to improve the community.

 

[Jorick]

Someone made a very valid case for the people rioting and what should be done to them as punishment. This may sound a bit stereotypical, and I apologize for it in advance, but I do agree with it. The people rioting, most are young, and a good deal of them are obviously out of work/school. Whatever benefits they receive, whether it's welfare, disability, or unemployment should be stripped from them, and the money used to repair and clean up the damage they caused. I agree with this wholeheartedly. If they have time to loot and destroy property, they certainly have time to look for jobs, or take classes to better themselves.

The people who are from out of state/city should be fined heavily, although I still can't decide if they should be fined more than the citizens of Baltimore who participated. As outsiders, they don't have the same respect for the community as those who live in it do or should have, but then again, they also came here with the intention of destroying things. However, the people who live here should treat their home with far more respect, not just because they live here, but because their families and the others who live around them work hard to try to improve the community.

Alright, not attacking you here Nydanna, just the idea. I feel like I have to make that clear from the outset, because that idea is utter nonsense and I like using strong language. Whoever proposed that punishment has no idea how the real world works.

Ignoring for the moment that it's a huge assumption that the majority of the people rioting are receiving some kind of benefits, just stop for a moment to think about what would happen if this idea were carried out. People who are on welfare, disability, unemployment, food stamps, etc. tend to depend on them for survival; there are of course instances of fraud, but they're a rather small percentage and tend to be scams from middle-class people skimming money from the system and government and charity workers pulling bullshit, not people living near the poverty level. So what this proposed punishment would do is find these people and strip away the benefits that they rely on to be able to pay bills and buy groceries and the like. What do you think the result of that would be? Do you think these people now facing everything from utility shut offs to homelessness to starvation are just going to meekly sit back and apologize for the rioting and do nothing in response?

Absofuckinglutely not. This would cause more crime, both on the riot scale and the small scale. There would be massive backlash against this from civil rights groups who would correctly call it a violation of the "cruel and unusual punishments" clause of the 8th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, plus the whole rigamarole of it being racially bias and racially targeted and blah blah blah. Once the news got out that this plan was going into effect, the outrage would cause more protests that would be likely to devolve into rioting thanks to opportunistic criminals making use of mob mentality. More riots would almost certainly be caused if this punishment were to be used to redress the wrongs of the Baltimore riots, very likely including more riots in Baltimore itself. Then on the small scale if these people just had their benefits stripped and any were left out of jail, I guarantee that a large chunk of them would turn to crime to try to make ends meet. Theft to acquire food, selling drugs and mugging people to make money, so on and so forth. More riots + raised crime rates in Baltimore doesn't seem like a smart solution to riot damage to me.

Wanna know the actual reasonable route to take to punish rioters? Punish them under the laws that are already in place. Seriously. We've already got tons of laws covering punishment for vandalism and property damage and theft and assault and so on. Put them to use, apply them fairly and equally whilst giving everyone due process as guaranteed to them under the law. Do the thing that they're saying doesn't happen often enough: treat them fairly in the fucking justice system, and punish them if it can be proven that they took part in the rioting. Maybe get the local government to pop out a statute saying that all fines assessed from riot-related crimes and all community service sentences handed out should go toward repairing the damage, but that's it. Just use the damned legal system as it's meant to be used, end of story.

By the way, it's this kind of knee-jerk reactionary nonsense that helps to fuel the shitstorm cycle in these kinds of situations. If this bullshit idea were to pick up steam and get national news coverage as an idea people support, then it becomes more fuel for the angry protestors and another excuse for the rioting shitbags. More protesting and rioting leads to more reactionary bullshit. Continue ad nauseam. The proper response to stop the cycle is to stop, take a step back, and think the situation through logically to come up with a reasonable reaction, as per above with the "punish them using the law as it stands" argument. I get that it's a whole emotionally charged thing and it can be hard to stop and take that step back, but that's what it takes to solve problems rather than escalate them. I wish everyone would recognize that and put it into practice in these kinds of situations, because the world would be a much better place for it.

 

[Dervish]

"I think they should be using lethal force by now,"


Are you out of your mind. The moment you are allowing police to move down people is the moment you get a fucking police state.

Should they have stood down? No. Is there a underlying sense of hopelessness that leads to this boilerpressure blowouts? Yes. You are gonna see more of it untill tangible change is seen. And riots always attract the wrong crows that use peoples anger against them. This isn't rational thinking, and it's epidemic.

Telling the police to use lethal force is gonna net you a far far worse situation then you can grasp.

There's a reason riot control police are armed to the tits in all manner of less-than-lethal and riot control weapons. Very few people are going to stand around when you have tear gas grenades going off in your ranks (going through military training, I will say from experience, tear gas is fucking horrible and it took every fiber of my being not to break down in a blind panic while trying to get my gas mask on) and nobody is going to be able to stand around while that's going on, you have to get away from it. Getting shot with pepper balls, I imagine, is pretty much the same idea; it's like paintballs filled with pepper spray.

Trust me, get a strong enough reaction force going and start marking ringleaders for arrest and you can definitely curb the worst of the violence in no time.

 

[Dervish]

Ignoring for the moment that it's a huge assumption that the majority of the people rioting are receiving some kind of benefits, just stop for a moment to think about what would happen if this idea were carried out. People who are on welfare, disability, unemployment, food stamps, etc. tend to depend on them for survival; there are of course instances of fraud, but they're a rather small percentage and tend to be scams from middle-class people skimming money from the system and government and charity workers pulling bullshit, not people living near the poverty level. So what this proposed punishment would do is find these people and strip away the benefits that they rely on to be able to pay bills and buy groceries and the like. What do you think the result of that would be? Do you think these people now facing everything from utility shut offs to homelessness to starvation are just going to meekly sit back and apologize for the rioting and do nothing in response?

I'd like to add a bit to that whole utility shutoff bit, I worked as a municipal utility operator and I had to do my share of water shut-offs for people who didn't pay their bills. Water is an essential service and you have to give the people ample warning to pay their bills because really, nobody wants to actually deprive people of water, especially if they have children. There were a few times where the shut off was supposed to be just before a long weekend that we pushed back because you can't expect people to go a whole weekend without water.

As for an operator's perspective, it's actually kind of nerve wracking doing a water shut off because everyone knows what you're doing and all it takes is one irate rate payer to put you in danger for trying to shut off their water. Water valves are tricky things to find, and a lot of the caps are buried below ground, so you have to locate them with a pin finder (which isn't always reliable, especially if there's metal shit in the ground) and then you have to dig them up, which if it's been raining is a fucking miserable and heavy job. Then if you're dealing with older infrastructure, the valve stems might be broken and you can't actually get a seat or turn the damn thing, which makes it something that requires repairs and replacement.

Now, imagine trying to do all of that for numerous protestors, and if they're willing and able to be seen in public trashing a city, what do you think they're going to do to the poor bastard who's been ordered to go dig up their lawn to shut their water off? And if they're in an apartment building, what are you going to do? Turn off the water for the entire building?

Trust me, it isn't a feasible or even well reasoned idea that I promise would make shit a lot worse.

 

[Zombehs]

Probably terrified of public backlash. I can see it now: "Mayor orders police to beat down blacks." Just imagine the sheer number of idiots that would declare it to be racist.

This too. Or maybe not, don't really know enough about her to say.

But I'm all for escalating force at this point. I don't even know how someone can by sympathetic to the looters and rioters taking advantage of the situation. Acting out like this entirely justifies an appropriate response, and while I wouldn't go as far as lining up a firing squad, and yelling out, "Ready. Aim!", I would not feel bad in the slightest if tear gas was lobbed by the dozens into the crowds.

"But oh think of the innocent protesters."

Uh, yeah no, there aren't really any. If there are rioters mixed in with your group of protesters, either police them yourselves or if its too dangerous to, scatter and let the police do their job. If the police have to go through protesters to get to the rioters, well sucks to be them.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

Alright, not attacking you here Nydanna, just the idea. I feel like I have to make that clear from the outset, because that idea is utter nonsense and I like using strong language. Whoever proposed that punishment has no idea how the real world works.

Maybe it's not a good idea, but that doesn't mean it won't hit a few idiots where it will hurt them the most. Right now the taxpayers are going to be the ones suffering for all this. The people who are locked up inside their homes like prisoners because they're too afraid to go out of their house. The people who have lost time off of work because businesses are staying closed, and losing out on money each and every day their doors have to stay shut. Some businesses are simply going to remain closed forever because they've lost too much and are unable to open their doors again, which will only add to the unemployment. My husband keeps saying that this will help employment in some ways for companies that want to rebuild, but who will want to knowing that if something else comes along the mayor will let it get to the point that damage is being done before asking for help?

The decent, law abiding citizens are who will be paying for the acts of thugs, and even if the majority of those people are arrested, it's still going to cost the taxpayers money. They'll be clogging up the court systems and jails, and half of them will end up getting away because of the difficulty gathering evidence against them. Those who do get punished will either spend time behind bars which will suck up more taxpayer dollars. The few who get off with community service will be the only ones who truly pay for their crimes, and that's if they turn up.

In my opinion, community service for a year should be mandatory for anyone caught rioting. If they work, their free time should be spent cleaning up the mess they helped create. If they don't work, than they should spend forty hours a week doing community service like any other 9-5 job until they find employment. It works out for everyone. The taxpayers will still have to pay, but it won't be nearly as hard n them. The person who did the wrong has a reason to become invested in the community and not want to repeat their actions (Probably a bit optimistic, but I'm a glass-half-full kinda girl.) and more importantly, it keeps the jails from getting filled. The amount of community service can go up depending on what evidence the person has against them. That would be the ideal way, at least in my opinion, of dealing with everything. But this isn't a perfect world, and I highly doubt anything of the sort would even be considered.

 

[Jorick]

Maybe it's not a good idea, but that doesn't mean it won't hit a few idiots where it will hurt them the most. Right now the taxpayers are going to be the ones suffering for all this. The people who are locked up inside their homes like prisoners because they're too afraid to go out of their house. The people who have lost time off of work because businesses are staying closed, and losing out on money each and every day their doors have to stay shut. Some businesses are simply going to remain closed forever because they've lost too much and are unable to open their doors again, which will only add to the unemployment. My husband keeps saying that this will help employment in some ways for companies that want to rebuild, but who will want to knowing that if something else comes along the mayor will let it get to the point that damage is being done before asking for help?

The decent, law abiding citizens are who will be paying for the acts of thugs, and even if the majority of those people are arrested, it's still going to cost the taxpayers money. They'll be clogging up the court systems and jails, and half of them will end up getting away because of the difficulty gathering evidence against them. Those who do get punished will either spend time behind bars which will suck up more taxpayer dollars. The few who get off with community service will be the only ones who truly pay for their crimes, and that's if they turn up.

In my opinion, community service for a year should be mandatory for anyone caught rioting. If they work, their free time should be spent cleaning up the mess they helped create. If they don't work, than they should spend forty hours a week doing community service like any other 9-5 job until they find employment. It works out for everyone. The taxpayers will still have to pay, but it won't be nearly as hard n them. The person who did the wrong has a reason to become invested in the community and not want to repeat their actions (Probably a bit optimistic, but I'm a glass-half-full kinda girl.) and more importantly, it keeps the jails from getting filled. The amount of community service can go up depending on what evidence the person has against them. That would be the ideal way, at least in my opinion, of dealing with everything. But this isn't a perfect world, and I highly doubt anything of the sort would even be considered.

Yeah, it's an awful situation, but that's no reason to circumvent the law to give these people unlawful punishments. It'd kinda just be supporting what little point these rioters might be thinking they're making: that black people in the US get treated unfairly by the justice system.

I can't really comment on what level of community service would be fair, but yeah, it actually would do some work to make people not want to go destroying crap again. Even if it's forced, when people have a hand in fixing or building something they tend to take pride in the accomplishment and become invested in it, thus they'd be less likely to go destroying it again.

Also, about the mayor, looks like Baltimore has a mayoral election coming up in November of this year. I highly encourage you to do whatever you can to advocate against voting that woman back into office if you think she's a danger to the city or incompetent or whatnot. Odds are damned good that she's going to have some strong opponents who will use her stand down order and the resulting riots against her, and I'd guess there's a high chance she'll be ousted. The city will have to suffer through whatever else she does until then, but better a late fix than just accepting that the problem is there to stay.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

I wasn't here to vote for her, but I'm definitely do not plan on voting for her in the future. I haven't been back long enough to really do much research on the people who are in office now. My husband has told me a little about all the stuff the governor has done since he's been in office, but when it comes to politics, he and I have vastly different views. Some people are complaining that he stepped in too late on the situation, but I honestly believe he was waiting for the Mayor to make the call, and when he realized that wasn't going to happen he took control of things. I'll hold judgment off on him though until I see how he handles clean up/recovery. Needless to say though, Baltimore is losing a lot of money. Most of it is generated from the Harbor and the surrounding areas which have all been effected by the riots. I don't see how most business aren't going to take a huge hit from even the past few days of being closed.

The one good thing that isn't really being publicized though is that there are a lot of people coming out already to clean up the mess left behind. There are all kinds of pictures floating around on Facebook and Twitter (Because mainstream media certainly isn't going to post anything fucking positive!) of people out with brooms and trashcans cleaning up, and walking around handing out bottles of water to cops as well as the people who are cleaning up. It's a shame that this isn't what is being pictured.