Gender Selection in preferences

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Just thought I'd mention that you'd be hard pressed to find a trans or NB individual who would get upset if you asked them for their pronouns. Like, seriously. I know I, at least, would be happy that someone asked instead of assuming. I'm sure most cis people wouldn't care either, given the absence of the gender option on the profile. But I understand it is an awkward question to ask. Just thought I'd give some insight to perhaps assuage some fears.

But I still think that it's much better to have a field for gender instead of nothing at all.

I wish there would have been a field. I wouldn't have even said anything if there was one. Lowkey, changing the names of the sexes and genders to something that is just a flavor of ice-cream or an element is really silly in the first place. It's a way of just getting around it. If they can make it into a field, that would be totally amazing.

Also, have you met people on Tumblr? :| I've been snapped at on there and once at my college for misgendering someone because I did not know. My close trans friend said that most people aren't like that but I still avoid people at my college now, lol.
 
Just thought I'd mention that you'd be hard pressed to find a trans or NB individual who would get upset if you asked them for their pronouns.

I actually don't like being asked about my preferred pronouns. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd be upset, but it does definitely bother me. It makes me anxious and I almost always feel worse than if they had just used the wrong pronoun and I corrected them. I realise I am in the minority here, however. //not really contributing to the topic at large, just kind of wanted to add that in.
 
I've been snapped at on there and once at my college for misgendering someone because I did not know. My close trans friend said that most people aren't like that but I still avoid people at my college now, lol.

IRL it's diff cos ur basically saying they don't pass if you misgender them lol.

EDIT:
but on topic like idk really. I don't really see who this change is for. before if you wanted to not disclose you could choose person. if you wanted to put something other than F/M/Person you had to put it in your status/personal details/etc just like rn... so the change actually didn't do anything to help genderqueer/genderfluild/etc people if that was the intent.
 
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IRL it's diff cos ur basically saying they don't pass if you misgender them lol.

EDIT:
but on topic like idk really. I don't really see who this change is for. before if you wanted to not disclose you could choose person. if you wanted to put something other than F/M/Person you had to put it in your status/personal details/etc just like rn... so the change actually didn't do anything to help genderqueer/genderfluild/etc people if that was the intent.

True, just feels bad man. I'm literally never trying to hurt anyone lol. I'm confused too.

:(
 

I actually don't like being asked about my preferred pronouns. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd be upset, but it does definitely bother me. It makes me anxious and I almost always feel worse than if they had just used the wrong pronoun and I corrected them. I realise I am in the minority here, however. //not really contributing to the topic at large, just kind of wanted to add that in.

I stand corrected! You may be in the minority but it's important to hear from the minority, too. It's just a really difficult thing, because I don't think anyone really wants to upset someone else, especially not about something as personal and potentially upsetting as gender. That's why I think this change is a little... questionable.

But for the most part I really do think people are receptive to being asked their pronouns, because you are the first person I've ever stumbled across that prefers not to be asked. I don't mean that in a mean way either! D:
 
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IRL it's diff cos ur basically saying they don't pass if you misgender them lol.

EDIT:
but on topic like idk really. I don't really see who this change is for. before if you wanted to not disclose you could choose person. if you wanted to put something other than F/M/Person you had to put it in your status/personal details/etc just like rn... so the change actually didn't do anything to help genderqueer/genderfluild/etc people if that was the intent.
I agree with you here, but if instead of removing the question completely, a write-in box was provided, I think that would actually be a very nice gesture for the staff to make. To be honest, I feel like this change was just an attempt by the staff to show that they're aware of the trans and NB community and are supportive of them. And it's a nice sentiment for them to express, and it's good to know that people are accepted here no matter what. I just feel that this specific change doesn't have much of a positive effect on the website.

As for my previous posts - I feel like I got a bit passionate about the wrong things. I wasn't trying to force people to ask questions they aren't comfortable with, or feel uncomfortable being asked. I just got a bit upset by the way that some of the earlier posters were complaining about now being forced to ask for pronouns, and I got a very dismissive and not actually supportive vibe? I'm not sure how to articulate it exactly, but I got very defensive and reacted badly. So I just want to apologize to anyone I offended with my previous words.
 
On mobile but feel strongly about this so blunt /bad English ahead.

Ice cream question is stupid.
Anyone who didn't want to disclose gender had the person option.
I've met more trans people who get offended by the pronoun question than not, both on & offline.

Sounds like a good fix for this is just changing gender question to what are your preferred pronouns, and making it optional.

I've read this entire thread. Have so many more thoughts but I won't have a proper computer for another week or so & wanted my opinion noted.
 
On mobile but feel strongly about this so blunt /bad English ahead.

Ice cream question is stupid.
Anyone who didn't want to disclose gender had the person option.
I've met more trans people who get offended by the pronoun question than not, both on & offline.

Sounds like a good fix for this is just changing gender question to what are your preferred pronouns, and making it optional.

I've read this entire thread. Have so many more thoughts but I won't have a proper computer for another week or so & wanted my opinion noted.
yeah cos if you're asking a trans person what their pronoun is IRL it means that they're visibly trans (which yeah ik some trans people are okay with that but ime most aren't). no one really walks around asking cis people what their pronouns are because they can tell at a glance.
 
I agree with you here, but if instead of removing the question completely, a write-in box was provided, I think that would actually be a very nice gesture for the staff to make. To be honest, I feel like this change was just an attempt by the staff to show that they're aware of the trans and NB community and are supportive of them. And it's a nice sentiment for them to express, and it's good to know that people are accepted here no matter what. I just feel that this specific change doesn't have much of a positive effect on the website.

As for my previous posts - I feel like I got a bit passionate about the wrong things. I wasn't trying to force people to ask questions they aren't comfortable with, or feel uncomfortable being asked. I just got a bit upset by the way that some of the earlier posters were complaining about now being forced to ask for pronouns, and I got a very dismissive and not actually supportive vibe? I'm not sure how to articulate it exactly, but I got very defensive and reacted badly. So I just want to apologize to anyone I offended with my previous words.

I wasn't offended and it's mostly about having to apologize to people you don't even know, personally, for mistakes you shouldn't have to make on a website that's for fun.

Supporting NB and the community is all worth while, but the change did nothing because the RP community doesn't care about who we roleplay with. RP is RP.

This hobby is usually not for the most social of people, so let's make it more socially awkward by removing some things entirely. So, now we will have to have awk convos.

That's what I always wanted.
 
tbh the original post asking for a change wanted a write-in field lol so I'm not sure where the ice cream came from (unless the field wasn't easily doable).
 
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yeah cos if you're asking a trans person what their pronoun is IRL it means that they're visibly trans (which yeah ik some trans people are okay with that but ime most aren't). no one really walks around asking cis people what their pronouns are because they can tell at a glance.

yeah I just want to clarify that I meant most people wouldn't mind being asked online without any other way of being able to tell, not offline. Offline is much different. However, I'm learning that I was wrong about this too, which is fine! It was just my personal social circle over the years, which is quite small, so perhaps it was wrong of me to make such a claim. My bad haha.

Supporting NB and the community is all worth while, but the change did nothing because the RP community doesn't care about who we roleplay with. RP is RP.

If I've learned anything from skulking around the redstar section, it's that people definitely do care about the gender of their partners, lol.
 
tbh the original post asking for a change wanted a write-in field lol so I'm not sure where the ice cream came from (unless the field wasn't easily doable).
I bet the field wasn't doable.
 
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If I've learned anything from skulking around the redstar section, it's that people definitely do care about the gender of their partners, lol.

I laughed at this lol.
 
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I also wanted to touch on the ice cream thing in a far less articulate way than I would like to but my brain isn't really functioning

I understand that it's not intended to be a replacement for gender. ... Except it quite literally is. In the first post it says that it's taken the place of the gender option. Perhaps to those who have not read this thread, or for new members, it may just seem like a quirky, unrelated question. However, for most of us, it is now there in place of 'gender', which puts kind of an odd taste in my mouth (NO PUN INTENDED HA HA HA)

This is where the 'not very articulate' part comes in. For some of us, gender is a pretty important thing. As the removal of the gender option was done in direct response to a suggestion that the gender field be expanded for pronouns, the whole 'what ice cream are you?' thing seems a bit, uh, trivial? Rather, that it's making gender seem like a trivial thing? Like, 'gender doesn't matter, let's be ice cream instead'! And for me, it's like... but gender does matter. It's an important thing. It's almost (almost) a bit like a slap in the face.

I hope this doesn't seem rude or like I'm being super sensitive and looking for something to be offended by ('cause I'm not offended). I definitely understand where this is coming from, and that it has been done in effort to extend an olive branch to the trans/NB community. But I really think just removing it altogether and not including a silly ice cream question in its place would have been better. It seems very unnecessary.
 
People in this thread, in summary.

e26.jpg
 
hopefully admins will be less dismissive than that angel but ok
I think the point was they already were, with this change... that doesn't actually solve the issue we started with.
 
tbh I never cared whether people called me guy or girl online lol. but obvs ppl have problems with new system so i think it should be addressed. that's it.
 
I want to make a note about the "trans/non-binary people being asked their pronouns" conversation before I dive into the meat of this post. I'm the one who posted the original thread asking for a write-in field, and I'm a genderqueer female assigned male at birth; I'm transitioning my body to female and I present female/androgynous, and I'm well aware that I don't pass very well, mostly because of my voice. I don't mind being asked my pronouns at all, whether online or in person; in person, especially, I know that I don't pass, but someone asking me for my pronouns shows me that they're aware of trans issues and care enough to want to know the correct method of address.

However, this is an online forum and as such we have access to certain conveniences, such as a personal profile, and even though I don't mind being asked for my pronouns, I'd still much rather just be able to write on the profile that is provided that I'm genderqueer and I use she and her pronouns, and do so in a way that makes it immediately visible without requiring someone to scroll and read other sections looking for it. And I agree completely with the other points being brought up; I was initially ambivalent to this (and kind of amazed that the admins responded to my suggestion so quickly; I don't agree with the decision, but props on you guys for listening to your community!), but the more I dwell on it, the more I think that this does nothing but trivialize gender and sort of shove it into the corner. My gender identity and gender expression are both very important to me; I prefer that my friends and even acquantices are aware of how I identify. This is somewhat difficult in real life, but here on a forum I feel it should be easier than this change makes it. When I asked for a write-in section, I did so to open the door for non-binary people to be able to easily inform people how they identify and what they prefer to be addressed as (basically the same right that cis people have); instead this change actually makes that more difficult, relegating it to a section where it will be often be overlooked, and making it just as inconvenient for cisgendered people to boot.

And even beyond that, thinking about the average users, how many people will bother to write their gender in About Me? I think a lot of people who have no problem disclosing it simply will overlook it if there's no profile field for it. And a better question, how many people will bother to look for it there? Having it as a field near the top of the Information section made it quickly and conveniently accessible; this change makes it unneccessarily obtuse. And while a lot of people won't have problems asking for pronouns (I myself ask people what their pronouns are as a routine when I meet new people in real life), some people who are socially anxious do. Believe me, I've been there. I used to be so bad socially that asking any question (even trivial ones) was difficult. This change just puts more pressure on those people who don't feel comfortable asking that question, and I think that pressure could be avoided.

Except for the trivialization of gender, I don't think a lot of these are issues that are that important. However, they are very easily fixable with a write-in field, and even if that's not possible, by adding more options to the gender field. They're so avoidable, and that what makes it problematic that we're facing these issues. A write-in field allows you to disclose as much or as little information about your gender as you want to, and make that information quickly and conveniently available to those it may concern. If you don't want your gender publicly known, you can leave it blank or fill it in with something silly, while if you're like me and having your gender known matters a lot, you can be as specific as you desire.

Overall I'm still not exactly offended by this change, because I know it was made in good faith and was meant to acknowledge the non-binary community, but I feel in practice it does the opposite while simultaneously making something that should be simple unnecessarily obtuse for everyone involved.
 
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