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Kagayours

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Agreed. A few months ago I was one of those people who hated all feminism, but, being the skeptically-driven fellow that I am, I questioned my own beliefs and investigated further to find that feminism is not a united front. It's several different schisms in one, kind of like different versions of the protestant church: All have the same (general) principles, they go about it differently though. I like individualist feminists. I like feminists that promote equality of opportunity and desire to see women granted the ability to make choices. In fact, I'd probably call myself a feminist if it weren't for how poisoned the label has become in recent years.
This is exactly the reason why I try not to even touch the word "feminist", or associate myself with it -- not because it's an inherently bad thing, but just because people draw so many different meanings of it that even I can't act like I know everything that the phrase "I'm a feminist" could possibly communicate to other people.

If people want to know my opinions on specific gender-equality-related subjects, then I'll give them those opinions, but the word "feminist" implies so many different combinations of those opinions -- everything from actual, helpful notions of gender equality that helps both men and women to not only the demonization of men but the victimization of women that actually hurts equality, and everything in-between. I just don't see it as a label that actually does its job as, you know, a label, that communicates something that people can understand. Even if I did all the research required to understand all the different factions of feminism and labeled myself with whichever one fit me best, then using that label effectively would also imply that everyone who sees that label also understands where exactly the boundaries between these factions lie, which many do not. Also, all of this is disregarding the fact that A) where exactly certain boundaries land might be slightly different depending on who you ask, and B) even feminists who claim to belong to the same sub-group can sometimes have different views, and perhaps also don't fully understand what their specific label means, which then calls into question what the label means since the people using it have distorted its original meaning over time and... yeah, it's a mess. I don't disagree with feminism as a concept; I disagree with it merely as a word and a label, as it has just completely lost its purpose to me in that regard. It's a similar sort of thing with MRA's/egalitarians/etc -- the lines between everything just seem so hazy that the trouble of trying to work out the semantics and get everyone on the same page just doesn't seem worth it.
 
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Hey guys, found our D'Artagnan! @Kaga-kun
 
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Astaroth

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Okay, here's the thing. There are ALWAYS going to be people who make a cause or group of people look bad, who misrepresent the group as a whole, and who represent an extremist viewpoint. Just because TERFs, for example (Trans-Exclusive Radical Feminists) also call themselves feminists does NOT mean that they represent who I am or what I believe in.

I mean, if everyone changed a label based solely on people's impressions... Should Muslims change their name to something that doesn't make people uncomfortable or think of terrorists, just because people freaked out about them post-9/11? Sure, not all of them (not even remotely most of them) are terrorists or hate America, but that's what the LABEL makes some people think! (For the love of god, please don't take any of this seriously or think this represents my views.)

Trying to please the entirety of society or come up with a single infallible label is impossible, as the terms "egalitarian" and "MRA" (although, MRAs mostly just shoot themselves in the foot) have demonstrated. The answer is not to distance yourself from a movement, but to be louder, have a presence, and become more available for discourse than the crazy assholes.

The reason that it is called "feminism" stems from the fact that the majority of gender issues in society stem from times where women were considered inferior. This has been just as damaging to men. But yes, absolutely the focus must be on tackling problems that women face. It's like how racism hurts everyone and society as a whole, but it is people of color who are undeniably facing the brunt of the issues.

I think it's really NICE that everyone believes sexism or racism aren't really a thing anymore and that the people screaming about the issues must just be chasing ghosts. It shows that YOU aren't sexist or racist, and that you don't associate with people who are and you think it's an outdated attitude. But unfortunately what's happening is that you often just aren't seeing it because it's not happening to you. I see how people still think it's appropriate to hit on the girl behind the counter at the store. Or, how the girl behind the counter thinks it's part of her job to flirt with the customer. I see how my black friend who isn't even driving the car gets treated by the cop who pulls us over. I hear how people in the food industry start talking about "people who don't tip". And I hear the people at work speculating on whether my female coworkers are pregnant/menstruating based on their moods. And you know who is doing this? It's not just men and it's not just white people and it's not just older people and it's not even just bad people.

Also, personally, I don't see women or people of color as helpless victims. I think to do so is incredibly insulting.

But yes, Kaga, hashing out the semantics IS tiresome and time-wasting. That is precisely why I choose to call myself a feminist and talk about my beliefs rather than worry about whether the word "feminism" is scaring people. To me, if you believe in equality, you are a feminist, and so I'm not going to worry about whether or not you actually call yourself that.
 

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I think it's really NICE that everyone believes sexism or racism aren't really a thing anymore and that the people screaming about the issues must just be chasing ghosts. It shows that YOU aren't sexist or racist, and that you don't associate with people who are and you think it's an outdated attitude. But unfortunately what's happening is that you often just aren't seeing it because it's not happening to you.
Oh. Okay. So... I suppose you have, say, a government statistic to prove this point maybe? I mean, implying that someone can't see something just because it's not happening to them is a bit silly. I can fully realize a negative action being committed against another person without having it committed against me. Say, for example, child marriage, or murder.
I see how people still think it's appropriate to hit on the girl behind the counter at the store. Or, how the girl behind the counter thinks it's part of her job to flirt with the customer.
I admit I see utterly nothing wrong with this. A flirtation is nothing more than an expression of affection and/or desire, and at any time can be turned down by the receiver. If this is sexism now, then the word has lost all real meaning, because saying something like "hey good looking" isn't oppressing someone. :ferret:
I see how my black friend who isn't even driving the car gets treated by the cop who pulls us over.
One cop, one black, one situation. Another cop, another black, another situation. This isn't to say that there's no such thing as racist cops: They exist. There are entire, corrupt as shit police departments that exist. However, I'm not going to pretend that the system endorses it at all. Corruption is an issue, be it for racism, or for turning a blind eye to crimes committed by the mob, or whatever else. :ferret:
I hear how people in the food industry start talking about "people who don't tip".
... I have no idea what this has to do with anything? Is this problematic now too?
And I hear the people at work speculating on whether my female coworkers are pregnant/menstruating based on their moods.
I admit, again, I'm not sure there is anything even particularly wrong with this? If a woman is in a poor mood, she might be dealing with period cramps. It comes with being a woman, and (at least men anyway) can't really physically discern when it is occurring easily. If someone asks her and she replies "no", that pretty much ends the discussion right there.
And you know who is doing this? It's not just men and it's not just white people and it's not just older people and it's not even just bad people.
Yeah, but, I admit, none of these things seem inherently wrong to me. (Save if the cop decided to drag your friend out of the vehicle and beat his ass. Then, you know, that's obviously terrible.) They just seem like basic human nature: We observe things in each other and comment on those things. Is it sexist to wonder if a woman is pregnant or menstruating? Is it wrong to bitch about people who don't tip, to vent and feel better as a result? Is it wrong to flirt with someone, except in preordained locations? I mean if it was like, groping, sure, or if it went excessive and wouldn't stop, yeah, that'd be off-putting and creepy. Like if a guy leered at a woman over the counter and kept doggedly making suggestive and sexual comments the entire time, that'd be creepy and upsetting. But just a single flirtation? That can't possibly be immoral. That can't possibly somehow oppress people. :ferret:
To me, if you believe in equality, you are a feminist, and so I'm not going to worry about whether or not you actually call yourself that.
But, I'm not a feminist. This is like saying "if you're a good person, you're obviously a Christian." Seriously, just replace [good person] with [equality] and [christian] with [feminist] and bam, there it is. Word for word. I can believe in equality, for men and women, and whites and blacks, and the tall and the short, and the religious and the irreligious, without having to subscribe to any particularly specific ideology. "Equality" is a concept, shared among several different ideologies. "Feminism" is an ideology, that happens to include equality as one of its qualifiers. :ferret:
 

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I wasn't saying you are incapable of seeing it if it's not happening to you. I mean, I am obviously seeing things that aren't happening to me. I'm also not saying this is any kind of statistic. I'm saying that this is a tendency I, personally, have observed among people. It's an opinion/speculation, not a fact. Sorry if that was unclear.

There is nothing inherently wrong with flirting on either the part of the cashier or the part of the customer in my example. What's wrong is when people feel like it is appropriate to do so when they are interacting with someone on a professional level, or when a woman feels that she is obligated to flirt with a customer. Or when the flirting would be considered a violation of the company's sexual harassment policy if it were a coworker rather than a customer. I am not claiming that every flirtation that occurs between cashier and customer is inappropriate.

Likewise, of course not every cop is racist. That wasn't my point. My point is that these things still DO happen.

The tipping thing: I was being oblique because it makes me uncomfortable, but I guess you aren't familiar with this phenomenon. A lot of people who work in food service- including people who, beforehand, were extremely liberal or pro social justice and even including people of color- start spewing a bunch of hate and have a huge thing about how black people don't tip.

The pregnant/period thing: The problem is not people having innocent inquiries to whether or not someone is feeling poorly. It's remarks like "she must be on her period, she's being such a bitch today". It's when people automatically assume that this is the reason based solely on the fact that the person is female.

Obviously not all of the examples are- in and of themselves- huge issues. That's really not my point.

I will concede to you that I should not call people feminists who don't want to be called that (even if it is only in my own head), although really it's more like saying "if you believe in basically the exact same thing that Christians believe but phrased slightly differently, you're Christian". What I should say instead is that I consider that person my peer.
 

Kagayours

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Okay, here's the thing. There are ALWAYS going to be people who make a cause or group of people look bad, who misrepresent the group as a whole, and who represent an extremist viewpoint. Just because TERFs, for example (Trans-Exclusive Radical Feminists) also call themselves feminists does NOT mean that they represent who I am or what I believe in.

I mean, if everyone changed a label based solely on people's impressions... Should Muslims change their name to something that doesn't make people uncomfortable or think of terrorists, just because people freaked out about them post-9/11? Sure, not all of them (not even remotely most of them) are terrorists or hate America, but that's what the LABEL makes some people think! (For the love of god, please don't take any of this seriously or think this represents my views.)

Trying to please the entirety of society or come up with a single infallible label is impossible, as the terms "egalitarian" and "MRA" (although, MRAs mostly just shoot themselves in the foot) have demonstrated. The answer is not to distance yourself from a movement, but to be louder, have a presence, and become more available for discourse than the crazy assholes.

The reason that it is called "feminism" stems from the fact that the majority of gender issues in society stem from times where women were considered inferior. This has been just as damaging to men. But yes, absolutely the focus must be on tackling problems that women face. It's like how racism hurts everyone and society as a whole, but it is people of color who are undeniably facing the brunt of the issues.

I think it's really NICE that everyone believes sexism or racism aren't really a thing anymore and that the people screaming about the issues must just be chasing ghosts. It shows that YOU aren't sexist or racist, and that you don't associate with people who are and you think it's an outdated attitude. But unfortunately what's happening is that you often just aren't seeing it because it's not happening to you. I see how people still think it's appropriate to hit on the girl behind the counter at the store. Or, how the girl behind the counter thinks it's part of her job to flirt with the customer. I see how my black friend who isn't even driving the car gets treated by the cop who pulls us over. I hear how people in the food industry start talking about "people who don't tip". And I hear the people at work speculating on whether my female coworkers are pregnant/menstruating based on their moods. And you know who is doing this? It's not just men and it's not just white people and it's not just older people and it's not even just bad people.

Also, personally, I don't see women or people of color as helpless victims. I think to do so is incredibly insulting.

I don't think you understand. I don't dislike the label because of its negative connotations -- I dislike it because no one can agree on what it means.

For example;

But yes, Kaga, hashing out the semantics IS tiresome and time-wasting. That is precisely why I choose to call myself a feminist and talk about my beliefs rather than worry about whether the word "feminism" is scaring people. To me, if you believe in equality, you are a feminist, and so I'm not going to worry about whether or not you actually call yourself that.
That's what you say feminism means. But not everyone thinks of it that way. There are plenty of people who, even looking at the positive, non-radical side of feminism, for example, still see it as being something to benefit women, and that anything that benefits men would fall under the category of MRA/egalitarian/etc. And that doesn't have to be a negative thing. There are people who agree with both "feminism" and "men's rights activism", but just think of them as separate entities.

It's not the negative aspects of feminism that bother me; it's just the semantics of it. Like I said, I don't disagree with it as an ideology, nor do I even feel like the word has been "tainted" as much as its just been "broken". For better or for worse, it feels like it doesn't even have a clear meaning anymore. That's why I don't like it.

If you want to call me a feminist because you think I align with your concept of it, then that's fine. I just don't like using it for myself.
 
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☆Luna☆

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Okay, here's the thing. There are ALWAYS going to be people who make a cause or group of people look bad, who misrepresent the group as a whole, and who represent an extremist viewpoint. Just because TERFs, for example (Trans-Exclusive Radical Feminists) also call themselves feminists does NOT mean that they represent who I am or what I believe in.

I mean, if everyone changed a label based solely on people's impressions... Should Muslims change their name to something that doesn't make people uncomfortable or think of terrorists, just because people freaked out about them post-9/11? Sure, not all of them (not even remotely most of them) are terrorists or hate America, but that's what the LABEL makes some people think! (For the love of god, please don't take any of this seriously or think this represents my views.)

Trying to please the entirety of society or come up with a single infallible label is impossible, as the terms "egalitarian" and "MRA" (although, MRAs mostly just shoot themselves in the foot) have demonstrated. The answer is not to distance yourself from a movement, but to be louder, have a presence, and become more available for discourse than the crazy assholes.

The reason that it is called "feminism" stems from the fact that the majority of gender issues in society stem from times where women were considered inferior. This has been just as damaging to men. But yes, absolutely the focus must be on tackling problems that women face. It's like how racism hurts everyone and society as a whole, but it is people of color who are undeniably facing the brunt of the issues.

I think it's really NICE that everyone believes sexism or racism aren't really a thing anymore and that the people screaming about the issues must just be chasing ghosts. It shows that YOU aren't sexist or racist, and that you don't associate with people who are and you think it's an outdated attitude. But unfortunately what's happening is that you often just aren't seeing it because it's not happening to you. I see how people still think it's appropriate to hit on the girl behind the counter at the store. Or, how the girl behind the counter thinks it's part of her job to flirt with the customer. I see how my black friend who isn't even driving the car gets treated by the cop who pulls us over. I hear how people in the food industry start talking about "people who don't tip". And I hear the people at work speculating on whether my female coworkers are pregnant/menstruating based on their moods. And you know who is doing this? It's not just men and it's not just white people and it's not just older people and it's not even just bad people.

Also, personally, I don't see women or people of color as helpless victims. I think to do so is incredibly insulting.

But yes, Kaga, hashing out the semantics IS tiresome and time-wasting. That is precisely why I choose to call myself a feminist and talk about my beliefs rather than worry about whether the word "feminism" is scaring people. To me, if you believe in equality, you are a feminist, and so I'm not going to worry about whether or not you actually call yourself that.
This is a good example of the exact illusion that I was referring to earlier. Feminism makes the assumption that it is championing women because they are the most oppressed group. When it was true, this assumption being a core principle was actually what I'd consider to be a dangerous thing. When you form an ideological group that has no real defined objectives, you've written a blank check to justify all sorts of behavior. To make matters worse, when you defend people on a collective rather than an individual basis, you amplify this problem. Whenever a feminist goes too far, they can simply shut down the debate by claiming that their opponent simply doesn't understand the issues of women, or otherwise is bias due to a personal belief. The result is that no matter how trivial the issue which a feminist is discussing, they can always justify their actions based on the perceived fact that women ALWAYS have it worse, even if there is evidence to the contrary. They don't know when women have reached a privileged position precisely because they do not care about the issues of anyone outside of their group.

Though, I again have to disclaim that I am referring to a subset of feminists, as I myself am not a collectivist. Feminism as you have said, means many different things to many different people. The reason I've specifically targeted you with this is because of this: I think it's really NICE that everyone believes sexism or racism aren't really a thing anymore and that the people screaming about the issues must just be chasing ghosts. It shows that YOU aren't sexist or racist, and that you don't associate with people who are and you think it's an outdated attitude. But unfortunately what's happening is that you often just aren't seeing it because it's not happening to you.

This is one of those arguments that collectivists use to avoid having a discussion. This one is on the tamer level, as you are likely to listen to an argument that the person actually does have a realistic view of the world, and has considered the fact that they have not personally experienced an -ism. While I understand that the intent is to make people think beyond themselves, this statement completely discounts the idea that they might have already done so, therefore distracting from the actual sexist issues you think need to be addressed.

This represents the actual meat of what you've brought forward to be -ism issues.
I see how people still think it's appropriate to hit on the girl behind the counter at the store. Or, how the girl behind the counter thinks it's part of her job to flirt with the customer. I see how my black friend who isn't even driving the car gets treated by the cop who pulls us over. I hear how people in the food industry start talking about "people who don't tip". And I hear the people at work speculating on whether my female coworkers are pregnant/menstruating based on their moods.

I just want to point out that these issues are rather first world, with the exception of your black friend; you should probably report this officer. People flirt with the girl behind the counter because in America, men are expected to take the initiative with relationships. The general idea is that if you do not like flirtation you are receiving, you ask for them to stop, and then they do regardless of the genders involved. If you want to discuss how hard women have it turning men down, the obvious flip side is discussing how hard men have it constantly getting turned down. Similarly, if someone thinks it is their job to flirt with the customer despite having never been told such a thing, I think that is not an -ism problem, but instead an esteem problem. I think that while talking about the menstruating cycles of women is rather rude and insensitive, the correct response to a rude person is to inform them that they are being rude. These issues are not serious issues. If you want to tackle them loudly, more power to you, but do not be surprised when some people find it hard to take you seriously.
 

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Obviously not all of the examples are- in and of themselves- huge issues. That's really not my point.
I'm curious, if that wasn't your intended point, then what was? After having discounted all the issues you brought forward, what then are you asserting?
 

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1) Black people don't tip.

2) Feminism changes because every new generation who gets involved changes the definition to suit their generation, mostly in a bid to get something for THEM to fight for with as much veracity and ferosity as the generation before.

It's why current feminism (third wave, I think?) is kind of a joke. Everything is a battle them. Peanuts the movie triggers womyn with a nut allergy, therefore the producers of the film is a cis-gendered shitlord. Etc., etc.. And it's for those very same reasons why people who don't get it, or people who refuse to get it, or people who get turned off by it, turn all of feminism into a joke (as with my Peanuts the movie allergy joke).

3) Cops beat black people. Go to any city with a predominant black population or "hood" (mind you, these large populations are still minorities until you get into these specific 'hoods). And before you say they target black people because they do most of the crime, that's like saying white people get white privelege because they're all rich. It's a quarter-truth twisted in a mound of bullshit, and you're an asshole for implying it.

4) Eat my ass if you think I'm going to respond to a response to this. /micdrop
 

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I will concede to you that I should not call people feminists who don't want to be called that (even if it is only in my own head), although really it's more like saying "if you believe in basically the exact same thing that Christians believe but phrased slightly differently, you're Christian". What I should say instead is that I consider that person my peer.
Problem with that is that it's a collective. It associates you with anyone else who identifies with that ideology, and there are very loud people in Feminism that I wouldn't want to be associated with. Therefor, I do not like being assigned to an ideology, or collective for that matter, as I am very individualistic and value nuances. Sure, my principles may somewhat align with libertarianism, egalitarianism and humanism - but that doesn't make me part of any of them.
 
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☆Luna☆

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1) Black people don't tip.
Citation needed.

2) Feminism changes because every new generation who gets involved changes the definition to suit their generation, mostly in a bid to get something for THEM to fight for with as much veracity and ferocity as the generation before.
Overgeneralization. Some feminists are reasonable people. Also, some feminists fight for problems unrelated to their generation. Also not all feminists are zealots.

It's why current feminism (third wave, I think?) is kind of a joke. Everything is a battle them. Peanuts the movie triggers womyn with a nut allergy, therefore the producers of the film is a cis-gendered shitlord. Etc., etc.. And it's for those very same reasons why people who don't get it, or people who refuse to get it, or people who get turned off by it, turn all of feminism into a joke (as with my Peanuts the movie allergy joke).
I think you are thinking of radical third wave feminism. Third wave feminism tackled transgender rights, and I would not consider those to be a joke.

3) Cops beat black people. Go to any city with a predominant black population or "hood" (mind you, these large populations are still minorities until you get into these specific 'hoods). And before you say they target black people because they do most of the crime, that's like saying white people get white privelege because they're all rich. It's a quarter-truth twisted in a mound of bullshit, and you're an asshole for implying it.
I actually don't know who you think is saying this. Quotation needed.

4) Eat my ass if you think I'm going to respond to a response to this. /micdrop
No.
I find it extremely interesting that in response to feminists believing in something you don't agree with, you expect them to stop expressing their opinion based solely on your opinion that it is absurd. Ironically, that is something you share with those very same radical feminists.
 

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I find it extremely interesting that in response to feminists believing in something you don't agree with, you expect them to stop expressing their opinion based solely on your opinion that it is absurd. Ironically, that is something you share with those very same radical feminists.
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Astaroth

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People seem to have this impression that by bringing up issues that are more subtle and smaller than the big, obviously terrible ones, that means you are trying to say they are the same level. They're not. That doesn't mean there's no merit in discussing them.

I'm not calling for legislation of flirting or saying that flirting is bad and no one should flirt with that cute girl at the Gamestop. I'm saying that there is value in the discussion of WHY this happens and the awkward positions it can put women into.
 

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Never flirt with the cute girl at Gamestop. She is sick of your shit and has heard it all, and is only flirting back to make you buy something quicker and go.

Source: Was That Guy at Gamestop. I never ended up playing those games I bought.
 
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Do flirt with the guy though. Becouse really, we all need a stuttering, akward sales clerk to stutter harder.

I saw it happen folks. I enjoyed every second of the spectacle but felt really bad and like a horrible person for taking amusement from the situation.
 

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I wasn't saying you are incapable of seeing it if it's not happening to you. I mean, I am obviously seeing things that aren't happening to me. I'm also not saying this is any kind of statistic. I'm saying that this is a tendency I, personally, have observed among people. It's an opinion/speculation, not a fact. Sorry if that was unclear.
Well then, I guess this is where you and I will have to differ, because I build my opinions and speculations on cold, hard facts, and not on personal feelings or faith. It's how I came to hold some of my most core beliefs, like atheism for instance. Just because I personally encounter a situation or set of situations which may imply a greater issue, doesn't mean it exists. It's funny you should mention fast food, because, I presently work in fast food. (Not by choice. Life's a bitch sometimes and you just take what you can get to survive. :ferret:) For example, where I work, on evening shifts, I often deal with at least three or four drunk natives a week. On bad weeks, I can deal with multiple drunk natives a day. Some of those natives even try to threaten physical violence, over fucking fast food. From my personal observations, I could very easily reinforce the stereotype that natives are drunken, violent, angry people, who would rather watch the world burn than do anything productive with their lives.

Except, then I have to think on how I grew up, and how I met some native kids. How I even befriended some of them, and how one of them pursued a career in the arts in order to escape their drunken family's wrath. I have to think of all the personal stories I meet from other people, who are natives, about how they just want to live their lives. How they just want to get a job, pay taxes, raise a family, preserve their culture, and live their own lives constructively and independently of my own. I would have to either accept that every individual native who defies the stereotype (which is the majority, of course) is the exception and my perception based on my personal experiences must be true, or, I have to accept this cold, hard fact: I've simply seen the worst among that particular race. There's nothing about them that predisposes them towards being good or bad people, it's only the environment they grew up in.

Same goes with cops, and any nearly any group of people, whether it be ideological or racial or gender or whatever other box you want to label people in. The majority, by necessity, must hold positions or beliefs that are conducive towards desiring coexistence with all others. If not, society as we know it would not function. Because groups which, by the majority, hold beliefs which are inherently destructive or violent (ISIL, KKK, et cetera), cannot physically coexist with others around them and invariably either self-implode or attempt to exterminate that which they find unacceptable.

Corrupt cops exist. Just as terribly violent black gangs who maim and murder each other over petty, nonsensical disputes exist. However, just because my personal experiences may show certain minorities as being more violent, doesn't mean that they are.

Cold, hard fact. It's not cops, it's not blacks, it's not immigrants. If it's anything, it's poverty and long-term hatred between groups of people who have long since dehumanized each other in a very Capulet-vs-Montague kind of way.

tl;dr: Unless an action inherently prevents all persons of X group from obtaining Y thing that all humans can achieve, I see no point or purpose to perpetrating pointless, faith-based, collectivist thinking, that attempts to shove people into boxes and then make assumptions about their lives as a result of the box they exist in. So citing "flirting with the cashier is bad" as an example of why we need feminism is silly. Because it presumes that all flirting is unwelcome, that all flirting somehow dehumanizes or harms the cashier, and does not in any way, shape, or form, take into account the context of a specific situation. Which is exactly why I reject the modern feminist label. I can't, in good conscience, make broad generalizations about groups of human beings, just because of my own personal experiences with others who share similar social roles or racial traits or gender traits. It goes against my core nature. :ferret:
 
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Er... but... I said that... flirting with the cashier is not automatically bad...
 

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Because a lot of the time it is?

I've actually explained this multiple times?

...I feel like this subject has been beaten to death because this thread is now about one line in an entire post giving one example, and no longer remotely on topic?

I feel like you're doing that thing where you ignore everything I say that doesn't make me fit your view of my views? And that you've implied I'm no different from a racist because I think trends in behavior among demographics might be indicative of larger social issues?

This might not be your intent but this is how it's coming off?

I think maybe this conversation has played out unless people have more to say about gender quotas?
 
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