Game 2 Mafia Day Thread

Yeah, right now, I am stumped and just getting generally confused by everything. So let me do a quick review to make sure that I got this right.

@Kiilgore suspects Starlighter and Dipper ( but not Lost and Bewildered)

@Starlighter suspects Kiilgore and Dipper.

@Dipper currently has no input.

@Lost-and-Bewildered and Bewildered has a scum read on Dipper. Did I get all of that right?

( Right now, my scum radar is going all over the place because I don't know who to trust anymore. :( Though at this point, we should probably hang Dipper. He has the most suspicisons on him.)
 
I missed my alarm again but we're moving forward anyway! It is now the voting phase, you may vote up who you may like to lynch. The voting phase is currently set to end at Thursday 7:30pm (GMT)- this will be extended if someone is voted up.
 
@Kiilgore
Kiilgore said:
Do you have any problems with my attempted breakdown of Dipper's actions (from both a mafia and Jester POV)? Thoughts on the actions being plotted out by Luster initially?
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Your breakdown was pretty well done actually, but I do have one concern about it. You've taken all the actions you mention on their own, and not considered them in light of how they relate to each other/what they indicate when put together. Like for example the fact that if mafia, Dipper had no reason to call doc or continue acting weirdly when we suspected him of being the detective, as doing so drew a lot of attention and confusion when he could have just laid low and played detective. As for Luster being the mastermind I'm not really sure what to think, but I doubt it. Something like that seems like it would take more time to plan out fully than they had. But on the flip side, Luster's argument to save themselves was essentially calling Dipper out as Jester (if I remember right) which would fit as part of the plan to prevent us from lynching Dipper.

Kiilgore said:
understandable. However, if a town dies in the night phase while they are inactive, it would essentially confirm them innocent. This would narrow down suspects even more, essentially narrowing down 2 people (inactive while kill occurs and the killed) while effectively losing one. (Due to the potential for the inactive to come back)
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I..... can't for the life of me figure this out. I don't know if I'm just not interpreting it right or what, but is there a way you can rephrase it? XD

KiilgoreAdmittedly said:
Fair enough, I can see how my doing that was rather suspicious. But at the time it was literally all I could think of as a potential indication of scum, so I threw it out there.

KiilgoreFor curiosity's sake said:
I guess you pointing suspicion at me when I was honestly just throwing out what theories I had to try and help made me feel like you were trying to get rid of me because I'm a threat. I mean, if you look at Joan's heal list cross referenced with the kills/no kills, it's very reasonable to say that the mafia have tried to kill me, so.... Also, speaking of that. Another major thing that contributed was that before I had finalized everything with the timeline that I was looking for, I thought I saw a pattern with some things I said about you/Joan healing me/a no kill night that would have indicated you were a mafia trying to get rid of me, and then the fact that you were suddenly throwing suspicion on me seemed to line up with that. (But said pattern turned out to be based on a miscalculation in the chain of events, and therefore completely irrelevant).

Kiilgore said:
Something that hits me as odd here. You wanted an extension, yet you didn't respond to the points until a last moment. Essentially a potential limiter of discussion (responded to the points earlier, could have gotten more discussion in), while being the one that requests for an extension, you get to pass off as more townie. Could you explain why despite requesting the extension, you didn't reply until the near end of the phase?
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A combination of things. It took me a while to hunt through the thread checking on that pattern/miscalculation thing, plus some other obligations on my time cropping up, and I'm sorry to admit some procrastination. I have a bad habit of leaving things to the last minute without considering the consequences, so you have my apologies for that.

One last thing I'd like to mention, Kiilgore, is that while I'm still somewhat suspicious of you, that is starting to fade the more you have to say. The thing that bugs me though is that I was so sure Dipper is the Jester... but I trust Hawk and Lost, and if you can prove to me that you're trustworthy as well.... that means by default, Dipper is the only option left.
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Ahhhhh I hate myself for not being able to edit that to look normal. *headdesk*
 
Starlighter said:
I..... can't for the life of me figure this out. I don't know if I'm just not interpreting it right or what, but is there a way you can rephrase it? XD
Click to expand...


Alright
I'll try.

So, if a night kill happened while djinn was inactive, wouldn't it essentially confirm him/her as town? (Unless they preemptively said it, but djinn was inactive to the point of that probably not even that likely. Plus .)
So you get a practically confirmed, while only losing over person. (Narrow down by 2, one death. As opposed to to narrow down by 2 with 2 deaths.)

An example:
Alice is inactive.
Bob gets night killed.
Because she was inactive when it happened, Alice is seen as townie so could be a risk if she came back, yet could be better for maf to go after more active people.
Alternatively, if Alice is lynched first, then Bob is night killed, both are out of the way.


I hope that made more sense...

------
Starlighter said:
Your breakdown was pretty well done actually, but I do have one concern about it. You've taken all the actions you mention on their own, and not considered them in light of how they relate to each other/what they indicate when put together. Like for example the fact that if mafia, Dipper had no reason to call doc or continue acting weirdly when we suspected him of being the detective, as doing so drew a lot of attention and confusion when he could have just laid low and played detective. As for Luster being the mastermind I'm not really sure what to think, but I doubt it. Something like that seems like it would take more time to plan out fully than they had. But on the flip side, Luster's argument to save themselves was essentially calling Dipper out as Jester (if I remember right) which would fit as part of the plan to prevent us from lynching Dipper.
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Hm. True.

Dipper did try calling for a roll call before claiming doc though, if that's worth mentioning. Like... RIGHT before.

Dipper said:
Damn, I'm being weird again, aren't I? Roll coll or nah?
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Followed by....
Dipper said:
For now, all I can say is, with 100% certainty, that I am not detective. I'm doctor. I've been trying to lay low for some time via acting somewhat normal, but if this is what I need to do, so be it. Leave me be and I'll keep us going for as long as I can.
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---
Now to the quote things, because iwaku doesn't let you do the highlight reply thing when it's already in the quote things.


'all I could think of as potential scum'

Hm fair enough. I mean... We need to try to explore any lead we can find...

With the silence thing, thank you for answering. Yeah. Reading back this game would take a way longer time than the previous game. (Almost double the length!)



One thing that I do disagree with is the 'if I regain your trust it would leave dipper by default' (unless it was a 'non-townie'slip)

This is because someone else would have to be in that position in my place. Else you are effectively saying that there are 4 townies, while we only have 3 left alive.
----
Regardless we are going to need a plan for what we are going to do.
 
Normally, I am not the one to start these and I don't know if I am right or wrong, but I vote for Dipper.
 
@Kiilgore
Kiilgore said:
Alright
I'll try.

So, if a night kill happened while djinn was inactive, wouldn't it essentially confirm him/her as town? (Unless they preemptively said it, but djinn was inactive to the point of that probably not even that likely. Plus .)
So you get a practically confirmed, while only losing over person. (Narrow down by 2, one death. As opposed to to narrow down by 2 with 2 deaths.)

An example:
Alice is inactive.
Bob gets night killed.
Because she was inactive when it happened, Alice is seen as townie so could be a risk if she came back, yet could be better for maf to go after more active people.
Alternatively, if Alice is lynched first, then Bob is night killed, both are out of the way.


I hope that made more sense...
Click to expand...
Yeah that makes it much clearer, thank you. And it's definitely a really valid point, which raises a rather interesting question. In theory, couldn't djinn have been the jester?


Kiilgore said:
Dipper did try calling for a roll call before claiming doc though, if that's worth mentioning. Like... RIGHT before.
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Hrmm. If he's maf I would guess that could have been meant to root out the most optimal kill. If Jester, allows him to counterclaim and gain suspicion, maybe?

Kiilgore said:
One thing that I do disagree with is the 'if I regain your trust it would leave dipper by default' (unless it was a 'non-townie'slip)

This is because someone else would have to be in that position in my place. Else you are effectively saying that there are 4 townies, while we only have 3 left alive.
----
Regardless we are going to need a plan for what we are going to do.
Click to expand...
Well let's say for the sake of argument that hypothetically, djinn was jester. In that scenario, wouldn't there be 4 townies left still? (Not sure if I'm miscounting something or not....)

As for a plan... I'm going to hold off on casting my vote for the time being, to get as much time as possible to be as sure as I can. But if it comes down to it and I'm still conflicted, I'm going to abstain because we can't risk another innocent loss this late in the game.

@LuckycoolHawk9 I can't help but agree.... it is odd for you to be the one starting this. Would you care to elaborate on why you think we should Lynch Dipper even with the possibility of him being the jester?
 
@Starlighter My reasoning is that he has been silent as soon as we looked at other possibilties. Add that on top of the fact he has no arguments and was postive Luster was mafia ( despite not being detective). Another thing is he is not combatting our jester claims. If he was jester, he would have reaffirmed the belief he is doctor and then our actual doctor dies, it just seems too concidental to me. Worst case, I am wrong and we lose to mafia. Best case, I am right and we win. If we do nothing though, our chances will hinge on the jester and 9 times out of ten, the jester sides with mafia. So I guess I am saying I am willing to take the chance.
 
Starlighter said:
Yeah that makes it much clearer, thank you. And it's definitely a really valid point, which raises a rather interesting question. In theory, couldn't djinn have been the jester?
Click to expand...

I don't think so. When we lynched djinn:
Daz said:
Djinnamon has been voted guilty. The town lynches them and discovers that djinnamon was innocent.
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Since jester is third party, I think saying innocent would be false revealing to us, since innocent is (usually) used to refer to town.

Starlighter said:
Well let's say for the sake of argument that hypothetically, djinn was jester. In that scenario, wouldn't there be 4 townies left still? (Not sure if I'm miscounting something or not....)
Click to expand...

If djinn was the jester, (already said why I doubt this right above) then yes, there would be four townies left.
 
LuckycoolHawk9 said:
Normally, I am not the one to start these and I don't know if I am right or wrong, but I vote for Dipper.
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One vote towards Dipper acknowledged.

Also, Djinnamon is indeed of the town faction. Innocent/town may be used interchangeably. A jester would be revealed as belonging to the neutral faction. So no, Djinnamon could not have been the jester.
 
I edited to correct that there was a vote against Dipper, not Djinnamon. I don't think it'd be very nice to go hanging those who are already dead...
 
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Starlighter said:
Hrmm. If he's maf I would guess that could have been meant to root out the most optimal kill. If Jester, allows him to counterclaim and gain suspicion, maybe?
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Yeah I can see either or as possible....
But all that tells us is that Dipper, more likely than not, is not town...

LuckycoolHawk9 said:
@Starlighter My reasoning is that he has been silent as soon as we looked at other possibilties. Add that on top of the fact he has no arguments and was postive Luster was mafia ( despite not being detective). Another thing is he is not combatting our jester claims. If he was jester, he would have reaffirmed the belief he is doctor and then our actual doctor dies, it just seems too concidental to me. Worst case, I am wrong and we lose to mafia. Best case, I am right and we win. If we do nothing though, our chances will hinge on the jester and 9 times out of ten, the jester sides with mafia. So I guess I am saying I am willing to take the chance.
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Although most of that is a good point, the 'if we do nothing' I find to be kind of jumping the gun there...

Granted, in a normal mafia game where more than half are needed to lynch, you would be correct, but in this game, half are needed to lynch. As it is right now:
Town-nontown
Now: 3-2
if we Nolynch: 2-2
This allows us to try to lynch the mafia next day phase.
If we mislynch: 1-2 Jester needed
If we lynch the jester, assuming worst case scenario. 1-1. (best case is 2-0)

No idea if your sudden push for lynching Dipper was a miscalculation or push for a mislynch though....
 
Kiilgore said:
Granted, in a normal mafia game where more than half are needed to lynch, you would be correct, but in this game, half are needed to lynch. As it is right now:
Town-nontown
Now: 3-2
if we Nolynch: 2-2
This allows us to try to lynch the mafia next day phase.
If we mislynch: 1-2 Jester needed
If we lynch the jester, assuming worst case scenario. 1-1. (best case is 2-0)

No idea if your sudden push for lynching Dipper was a miscalculation or push for a mislynch though....
Click to expand...

It is neither. I have a feeling that our mafia knows who the jester is and is using us against. With a 2-2 odds and nobody knowing who is who certain, there is no guartnee. That being said, if we do nothing, all we know tomorrow is who was a townie and nothing else. Another reason I am pushing is that we all agree that Dipper suspicious, so besides the possibility of jester, there is really no reason to not lynch him.
 
The voting phase is supposed to end now, but you guys still seem to be deciding on how you want to act, so I shall postpone ending this voting phase another day or two.
 
LuckycoolHawk9 said:
It is neither. I have a feeling that our mafia knows who the jester is and is using us against. With a 2-2 odds and nobody knowing who is who certain, there is no guartnee. That being said, if we do nothing, all we know tomorrow is who was a townie and nothing else. Another reason I am pushing is that we all agree that Dipper suspicious, so besides the possibility of jester, there is really no reason to not lynch him.
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Aaahhhhh I gotcha.
I see what you mean...
plus, if we wait a day, it runs the risk of turning into a waaaay too ugly WIFOM IMHO...

I also vote for dipper.
@Daz
 
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That's two votes for dipper. Extending the voting phase another day so people have a chance to respond, but this will be the last time.
 
The voting phase is coming to an end and the night phase begins. Please do no post again until the next day phase, which should hopefully begin Monday 7:30pm (bst).
 
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