(For Devs & Iwaku Users) What do you think about political correctness?

[Akibahara]

Just curious, and mainly bored, but what's your opinion on political correctness? Personally, I believe it isn't about "respecting your fellow man" or "what we should or should not tolerate" - it's restraining freedom of speech under the guise of 'tolerance.' I'm not inherently racist but I absolutely DO NOT believe in individual censorship because it "hurts mah feelin's."

Why am I asking this? I run an RP group known as 'The Murder Games' -- most of us -- I'm comfortable to say a vast majority of us are comfortable with political incorrectness. A few complain, understandably, given their Leftist political positions, concerning the word 'faggot' tossed around casually in gifs, as with joke anti-Semitic jpg images (even though I'm a massive supporter of Israel and a pro-Zionist)

... But enough about that! :D

What's your opinion on political correctness? I'm curious about everyone's thoughts!

 

[Sidhe]

When I see someone flinging around the term 'political correctness,' it's usually in reference to things I would consider to be 'basic human decency.' I frankly hate the term, and have never seen it used in a positive or beneficial way. To give an example:

"A popular website/game/whatever implements new rule that prohibits slurs..."
"Wow, PC much? Ever heard of freedom of speech? [insert rant about liberals and how everything is 'too PC' these days] [as a bonus, small commentary about how people who are so easily offended should get off the internet]"

Clearly that's paraphrased, but unfortunately not all that uncommon. I'm not pro-censorship, but I'm also not interested in partaking/participating in any communities or role-plays where slurs and whatnot are thrown around out of character. The latter distinction is important; I'm much more lenient in character. I just don't really want to hang out with those kinds of people. I dealt with enough of that as a teenager to the detriment of my own well being. Now I just don't really care whether it's supposed to be in jest or otherwise; it's not humorous to me at all. Personal preference and all.

 

[Space Cowboy]

Shove it up your ass, fuccboi.

 

[Jorick]

It's a load of horse shit, to be frank.

It used to be a rather rational thing before the sniveling crybabies that are the general public got a hold of it. It's called political correctness because it's the kind of careful stepping politicians aim for when speaking publicly so as not to offend anyone and drive voters away. It was never really about not hurting people's feelings, nothing to do with acting like offending someone is a horrible social crime, it was using not hurting people's feelings as a means to an end. The only repercussion one could expect from not being politically correct back in the day was that you would lose votes and perhaps not win the election you're running in. That was totally fine, it makes sense to aim for political correctness when running for public office.

Nowadays people act like it's some kind of social law. The general sentiment of people who preach political correctness in everyday speech seems to be that offending others is morally wrong, and that's just retarded. Social discourse is a two way street, where things you say can indeed have a negative backlash against you. That's fine. That's reasonable. That's how people work. If you run around yelling racial slurs, you can expect people to get mad at you and think less of you, and you might even get physically assaulted because some people are idiots and can't handle problems like adults, but that's fine. Anyone with a functioning brain ought to understand that these are the kinds of risks you run when you say whatever dumb shit you want. You being able to say whatever you want means that others can say whatever they want in response. Totally legit, that's how it should work.

The problem with political correctness is that it aims to prevent that and impede the free exchange of speech and ideas. The battle cry of political correctness is you can't say that, which runs counter to the very idea of free speech. There is a huge margin of difference between "you shouldn't say that" and "you can't say that." The former is a suggestion, best coupled with an explanation of why it's bad or dumb to say it; the latter is a command, best coupled with explanations of the penalties and repercussions you will absolutely face if you say it. It's an attempt to turn social conventions into law, and that's fucking dumb.

However, there are certain kinds of speech that should be censored. The laws against doing things like yelling "fire" in a crowded building when there's no actual danger are good ones: they prevent people from getting hurt in the maddened stampede for the doors that will almost certainly ensue. There are laws against verbal harassment, and that's fine too: when it gets to the point of being harassment the speaker has gone over the line from free speech to targeted attack, and that's not cool. There are laws against inciting violence against others, and those are also good: speaking to a large, angry crowd and saying "John is the cause of all our problems, let's go kill John!" is the kind of thing that can end up with people actually truly hurt.

The difference between those things being illegal and the things political correctness tries to make pseudo-illegal is that one set of things causes actual physical or psychological damage, and the other offends people. Being offended is not harmful. It's a specialized form of being upset, and nobody ever had to go to the hospital due to physical injuries or to a therapist due to psychological injuries caused by being a little upset. Trying to prevent people from saying things that upset you is basically an attempt to enforce your preferences on everyone else. It's saying "I don't like that, so you can't do it." Fuck that, and fuck anyone who thinks like that. The decent person way of saying that is "I don't like that, so could you stop doing it?"

That's why I hate the idea of political correctness as it's used today. It's the tool of a bunch of whiny little shits who can't handle conflict like reasonable adults, so they try to ban the things that upset them. I refuse to bow to the whims of a bunch of crybabies who equate being offended with being physically assaulted, who think my rights ends where their feelings begin. Fuck that shit. If someone has a problem with the things I say they're welcome to tell me why they don't like it, but I will not censor my thoughts or speech to appease little shits who want to impose their petty tyranny on the social arena.

 

[Hellis]

ITs a overused term, and frankly it's detractors are usually about as dumb as its supporters. What do I mean by this? Well somewhere, somehow, it became a sort of inane "Look how edgy I am" kind of counter-culture to purposely be "Non-PC". PC as a term has done harm on the entire debating subject, and now you have grade A asswipes using the NON PC as a kind of statement. And guess what IT works, becouse the medias obsession of forcing Political COrrectness down our throats make for a really great background for any populist, far right/left wing force. When this becomes the case, where Polical Correctness and Non PC becomes polarizing statements and that do more harm then good, it has become obsolete.

Jorick and Fauna both pretty much nailed it really.

Common human decency is something people should follow. But if somone doesn't, you should be able to fucking deal with it. That said, someone who runs around screaming faggot in my face, or make jokes i am uncomterble around for whatever reason, and don't stop when politely asked, will have to deal with the consequences. Becouse I have that right if you have the right to spout ignorant shit. What comes around goes around.

 

[Sukisho]

It's the tool of a bunch of whiny little shits who can't handle conflict like reasonable adults, so they try to ban the things that upset them. I refuse to bow to the whims of a bunch of crybabies who equate being offended with being physically assaulted, who think my rights ends where their feelings begin. Fuck that shit. If someone has a problem with the things I say they're welcome to tell me why they don't like it, but I will not censor my thoughts or speech to appease little shits who want to impose their petty tyranny on the social arena.

This is basically how I feel on the topic. I always think of Harry Potter when this comes up because the censoring of Voldemort's name was very much a form of Political Correctness. People we afraid and "hurt" when people said Voldemort and so they started saying, "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named". I am not saying that it is socially acceptable for people to use all words, because like Jorick said, it isn't. Some words I have no problem avoiding such as the word "Nigger" because they have a very bad connotation. But I think even worse than using the word is saying "The N Word". Everyone knows what word you meant, but everyone is so afraid of upsetting people by using it. Even if it was used in intellectual conversations, or by reading unedited pieces from a time when the word was commonly used, such as Mark Twain novels.

The only way I can see that people will stop worrying about being PC, is to stop being afraid of the words. That is all they are is words and you determine how much they hurt you.

 

[iMisterH]

In my opinion, I think political correctness has gone absolutely mad. People are over-sensitive these days and you can't say anything without offending someone.

One example I can think of is saying 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas' just in case some people who don't celebrate Xmas get offended by the latter greeting.

 

[Diana]

If by political correctness you mean knowing your audience and being respectful to the people you are around and interacting with, YES. Because you shouldn't go out in a public space and crack any old joke or say any old statement all willynilly. That's just basic manners and common decency. o_o Dead baby and rape jokes can be really funny, but a stranger might not realize that it IS a joke. They don't know you, for all they can gather, maybe you LIKE raping dead babies and you're a psycho running around laughing about it.

If you mean political correctness as a means of censorship, then no. >:[ I hate censorship. If I wanna crack dead baby jokes, I have a right to do that. But I'll be respectful enough to know when and where to do it, and then have the decency to apologize if I do upset someone.

 

[Dervish]

Political correctness should never be a substitute for good manners. What I mean by that is you shouldn't call people by discriminatory terms or slurs (although I agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't legally be prohibited from being a foul mouthed shit bird, even if what you're saying is completely awful), but you definitely shouldn't take it to the level where you're pussy footing around everything like offending somebody with a relatively neutral term is going to spark outrage.

Case in point, I think it's fucking stupid calling a black person "African American", because chances are that person is a lot of generations removed from their African ancestors, plus it completely ignores the fact that North Africans tend to be ethnically similiar to Middle Eastern people and they've lived there since goddamn ancient times. It would be like calling me European Canadian instead of white.

Another term that annoys me is "person of colour", which is lazy well meaning racist sounding shorthand for "anyone who isn't white". As you're probably aware, the world is a very diverse place with hundreds of cultures and dozens of ethnic groups. So just mass lumping everyone who isn't white (who have all sorts of different cultures, I'd like to add) into the same category is kind of saying you're too lazy to mention the people involved by name, just that they're not white and thus should be represented, because a Korean person is the same as a Pakistani and an indigenous South American.

An example of what I mean by the last point is I saw an article where the columnist was complaining about Exodus (that movie about Moses three people went to see) being totally white-washed and not having a proper representation of the ethnic groups who actually lived in Egypt at the time, which I think is a fair point, but the writer decided to use that good ol' POC term instead of saying anything specific, like Egyptian or Israeli. It basically comes across like "literally anyone but whitey. Hey, nobody will notice if Moses is played by a Chinese guy?"

Look, I get the absolute dominance of white male actors in movies is ridiculous, especially in this day and age, but simply lumping everyone else into a single catch phrase is just lazy and kind of evokes 1950s Southern society.

 

[Digi-Guy]

It does my heart good to see so many people here taking a good stance on PC.

The victim mentality has never, EVER gotten anybody anywhere. We need to teach people that others opinions and words don't matter. Tolerance today is more like forced conformity. In a lot of ways it's almost like a inquisition or crusade. Change what you believe or else. It makes me so frustrated. When has forcing some one to believe or act a certain way actually worked well? NEVER! Whether it's opinions and beliefs on homosexuality or race, it doesn't matter. People need to toughen up.

You can't control what people say or believe. But you can control how you respond. Our circumstances never define who we are or how we act. We decide that. I'm not saying that hate, racial slurs, or anything like that is good. In fact its down right horrible. But whats worse is people who demand conformity and strip away peoples rights to believe and say what they want. Because it won't stop there.

We need to look at the larger picture. In America and other "free" countries, you have the ability to be who ever you want. In other countries, you are brutally murdered for being a christian, being a certain race or a homosexual. That is something to get angry about. That is something that people should fight for. People need to get there heads out of their own butts, and start seeing whats really important.

*Drops mic and walks of stage*

 

[InkWren]

Whether we consider the political motivations of speech or the emotional, I would rather cringe, rather be offended, rather disagree passionately than be told what someone thinks I want to hear.

 

[Digi-Guy]

Whether we consider the political motivations of speech or the emotional, I would rather cringe, rather be offended, rather disagree passionately than be told what someone thinks I want to hear.

For sure. My brother is the foulest and most offensive person I know. But, I love that he always says what he really thinks. So I know he is genuine about what he says.

 

[Windsong]

Whiney people throw it around that they're offended by what I say as if they have the right to censor me on the grounds that they don't like it.

As I've seen around plenty enough: "your rights end where my feelings begin."

Somehow it seems like the world suddenly found its loud and shrill voice. If someone said something they didn't like a few years ago, they'd quietly complain, follow the avenues of questions/comments, or shrug it off because it's not a big deal.

Now with the advent of the Internet, you've got large groups of people scattered around that can group around a common dislike of something. Which makes their voices exponentially louder than they actually are.

Then again, some people look for something to complain about.

Others need to grow a thicker skin, the worlds not an overly accepting or tolerant place outside of the Internet.

 

[Windsong]

For sure. My brother is the foulest and most offensive person I know. But, I love that he always says what he really thinks. So I know he is genuine about what he says.

The sad part is nowadays. People confuse honesty with being insensitive and a jerk.

"You're punctuation and grammar need some work, here some material that might help (insert link or page)."

"Omg jerk you don't need to criticize just cause people haven't spent their whole lives behind a keyboard."

That kinda stuff. Your brother is a quietly dying breed.

 

[Brovo]

The fact that we worry more about the words a person uses than the message the words are sending is a worrying state of affairs for the future of the human race.

Political correctness is a hypocritical piece of garbage and it enrages me in ways I can't even put into words. I have perhaps the most perfect example of hypocrisy for you in one word: Nigger.

Yes, nigger. It is a derogatory term to refer to human beings who come from the genetic, ethnic background of the negroid family. This word is most infamously banned pretty well universally across North America. Even using the word in a manner lacking any form of context is considered horrifyingly edgy. Why? Because I'm a white person saying nigger. If I was a black person and said nigger to another black person, that's completely acceptable.

In other words, political correctness is racist. Selectively racist at that, cuz' it doesn't give no fucks about words like "cracker" and "whitey", which are also derogatory and racist and easily comparable to nigger. Political correctness doesn't give a shit about the message, it only gives a shit about the messenger and the words they use, not the content, the words. Not the meaning, the words. Not the purpose, the words. It's a tool used by pathetic shrews who cling to ancient ideals of civilized discussion and society. It's a way to try and enforce the old fashioned Comedy-Tragedy dichotomy of language that has plagued mankind for centuries.

If political correctness is a correct ideology, it shouldn't need to force itself down people's throats. It shouldn't need to control you, to silence you for using a wrong word despite whatever message you attempted to convey. The fact of the matter is, on the battlefield of ideology, political correctness loses when the fighting is fair, because people are smarter than that. George Carlin is no less humorous for using vulgarities, and he points out how ludicrous it really is to get squeaky about it.

If you sincerely believe that political correctness--that censoring individual words, that maiming the right to freedom of speech is a valid course of action--I implore you to please reconsider your position. Language is a beautiful thing, hammering it to "vulgarities are the language of peasants and we are more sophisticated than that" is in of itself offensive. And so what if you're offended? Grow some thicker skin. Life is not a road of sunshine and rainbows and lollipops and softening the language via censoring "negative context words" to suit your feelings and agenda is straight wrong. It is deceitful at best, downright brainwash at worst.

The message is what should matter, not the individual words. Fucking hate political correctness. Fah.

 

[Windsong]

Sorry, @Brovo , there isn't any other higher rating than love it.

 

[Spammy]

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Inb4 this thread turns into another shitstorm of angry people being angry with each other.

 

[Brovo]

Inb4 this thread turns into another shitstorm of angry people being angry with each other.

 

[Ochalla]

I only came in here to find out what "devs" are from the title.