Ethical Question

[Captain Illiterate]

So white people can't say niggas but black people can. On the internet you're not black or white. You're text. So can you say niggas?

 

[Hellis]

 

[Marchosias]

Sure I culd, on or off the net. Off the net, I imagine it wuld provoke a nice litle brawl hehehe! :)

 

[Icy]

I'll always uphold the "If you wouldn't say it in person, don't say it on the internet." Keyboard warriors who push the question of the social validity of being able to say 'Nigga' without drawing negative attention irks the fuck out of me - because, quite frankly, they only do it to vex others. They're no different from the radical feminists they constantly criticize. And here's the thing, certain black people respond negatively to the usage of the word because, as of this time and day, racism is still alive and well. Give it a century or two and I'm sure we'll see a change, but you'll have to be patient.

And if your social-vigilante-ass can't wait that long, then by all means, go be a fucking bother and I'll pray someone sucker punches your ass. I'm not black, so no, I have no emotional attachment to the word whatsoever. And yes, the argument that if black people hate when others use the word so much, they should stop promoting it, is valid on a certain level - I think it's laughable, though.

 

[Sini]

First off, being a European I am less invested in this white-black dialogue the U.S.A. has bogged itself down in. All in all, it's looking a bit strange to prohibit the use of words. That's called censureship, not something Western or democratic societies should pontificate to the world.

Excluding people from a certain jargon/term only serves to enhance the existing dichotomies, socio-cultural, political or otherwhise. Me being a white person should be able to say 'nigga' to an "African-American" (or whatever the correct but stigmatising label is - Africa is a large place, not to mention there are other negro-cultures that have since developed). So yes, you should be able to use the colloquial 'nigga'.

 

[Kestrel]

First off, being a European I am less invested in this white-black dialogue the U.S.A. has bogged itself down in. All in all, it's looking a bit strange to prohibit the use of words. That's called censureship, not something Western or democratic societies should pontificate to the world.

Pretty much this to a T.

I mean, I get that different relations give different meanings to words. Like for example, I can call my friends asshole with affection, but I can't exactly do the same to a stranger. However, I don't think these relations should be influenced or defined by race. Ironically, that would be racist.

I'm tired of division.

 

[Hellis]

First off, being a European I am less invested in this white-black dialogue the U.S.A. has bogged itself down in. All in all, it's looking a bit strange to prohibit the use of words. That's called censureship, not something Western or democratic societies should pontificate to the world.

Excluding people from a certain jargon/term only serves to enhance the existing dichotomies, socio-cultural, political or otherwhise. Me being a white person should be able to say 'nigga' to an "African-American" (or whatever the correct but stigmatising label is - Africa is a large place, not to mention there are other negro-cultures that have since developed). So yes, you should be able to use the colloquial 'nigga'.

As a fellow white european, no we should bloody not. A slur is a slur.

 

[Sini]

Pretty much this to a T.

I mean, I get that different relations give different meanings to words. Like for example, I can call my friends asshole with affection, but I can't exactly do the same to a stranger. However, I don't think these relations should be influenced or defined by race. Ironically, that would be racist.

I'm tired of division.

Glad you get/agree with what I am saying :) . Also, good to see you again Kestral you Dutchie.

As a fellow white european, no we should bloody not. A slur is a slur.

Keep in mind I'm not condoning the use of slurs. It is simply unreasonable for an entire group of people not to be allowed to use a certain word while it's so prevalent in the vocabulary of another group of people. Connotations are existent, true enough, but they should not be dictated by somebody being 'black' or 'white'. As far as I could tell, this was about the use of 'nigga' in a familiar context, not just things you shout at strangers or people you're in an argument in. That would be asinine.

Basically, saying "I can say nigga to my bud cuz I'm black, but you can't whiteboi" is just as racist as those African-Americans would make you believe your use of 'nigga' is (which, to my mind, it isn't on the proviso you don't want to insult obviously - which this poll was about).

 

[K3l]

The questions should be WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT TO?! No, seriously, answer this.

 

[Marchosias]

The questions should be WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT TO?! No, seriously, answer this.

To get under their skin?

 

[Sini]

To get under their skin?

Black or white skin? We can joke about this, right?

The questions should be WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT TO?! No, seriously, answer this.

The topic is about 'can you' not 'will you'. As it has come up in the previous posts, if I know someone has issues with hearing a certain word or term, I'll more than likely not/never use it in their presence. Obviously you do not need to insult people by bringing up something from their past (if that's indeed the case). Intended insult is not ok, naturally.

My problem lies with the wholesale prohibition of use for several other groups to use that word. There's no such thing as a lingual monopoly. Imposing yourself or your background on others is bad, mkay? Especially if it happens in such a hypocritical fashion. "I can say it - you can't" is moronic.

 

[Kestrel]

The questions should be WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT TO?! No, seriously, answer this.

Commonly, as I understand it, to be part of the same group and be able to use the same language in the same context. People who want to use nigga as insult already do, people who want to use it as substitute for friend are divided by race.

Also, good to see you again Kestral you Dutchie.

Been a while, mate. How you keeping up?

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

The timing of this thread and me having uploaded this is scary... XD

Seriously though.
I also don't see the issue, a word is a word.
So if it's a matter of offence, people should really be looking at the intent of the word, not the persons saying the word.

And even if they are offended... So?
There's a ton of stuff people (including myself) can get offended by.
That's fine, but there's a difference between saying "I don't like that" and "I don't like that, therefore you're not allowed to say it!".

 

[Hellis]

Let's see here. A word derived from slavers, white, colonial slavers at that. Wished to be used in a possesive, if friendly term, towards the people it is a slur against, by a white guy. You can't see why this would be extremely uncomfterble to someones whos people or country is still feeling the effects of our ancestors mistakes and misstreatment of others? Really? A word they claimed as a fuck you towards the systemtic abuse that spawned it in the first place.

I am sorry. This "non-pc, why can't I be unresponsible and culturally insensitive" stuff is getting out of hand.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

The word has an ugly history yes, but the fact it's acceptable for black people to use it with each other already shows they aren't scarred by it.
They've clearly realized that the intent and meaning of words can change with time. The question is though why they don't extend that realization to others based on the persons skin colour.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Not to also mention that people are so terrified of using the word that you now even got Black people trying to push for them to say it.

 

[Hana]

I can, but I choose not to. It's not really out of any ethical or logical reasoning, I know why the word is possibly offensive and the background behind it. It's just that I don't particularly like or enjoy hurting or getting under anyone's skin (@Marchosias) in that way. Sure, I can be a great big tease but I never use something like that against other people.

At the end of it? I just don't enjoy seeing other people get upset or have their feelings hurt. I don't like being the cause of it.

 

[Hellis]

The question is though why they don't extend that realization to others based on the persons skin colour.

Becouse there is a big fucking difference when it comes from someone who is from the other side of that ugly history. It is the same reason i physically flinch when straight people say shit like "Faggot" near me IRL. Words carry alot of weight. And that weight vary from person to person. One doesn't just shrug of the meaning of the word. It's the same reason my mother gets visibly upset if guys use mysoginist slur and language around her.

A group that is reclaiming or making a slur a title of endearment is not a invititation for everyone to use it. It is a defence mechanism. The scar are clearly still there. Yes, some people like Sam might push for people to relax around it. But he obviusly do not speak for everyone. Basic empathy people. Put yourself in other peoples shoes. A white person is not less off becouse she or he cannot use a slur with heavy, heavy cannotations.

 

[K3l]

Okay, I think I see the problem now. None of you actually understand the context in which African-Americans use the word nigga. It moves past simply being a substitute for friend. The word developed from the racist slur nigger, to nigga as a term of endearment. Similar to how brotha and sista(h) are/were used as a term of endearment, they developed from the same pronunciation, meanwhile niggER remains disrespectful 'till this day.

So, with that knowledge in mind, you might see why black people don't take so kindly to use of the word from white people. It kind of diminishes the meaning, especially when white people say it to one another. And before anyone goes on to say, "Well wouldn't I, a white person saying nigga to black people, be endearing to them?" Well no, simply because it's a term for black people to endear other black people.

Now personally, I care little if a white person says it or not. Comedic/Satire purposes? Go right ahead. Referring to your friends? A bit cheesy on your part, but if you're saying it now then you'll say it even if confronted about it. Being a racist asshole? Fuck off.

But I hope that at least opens your minds a bit more on the topic, now knowing what the term means to black people and (hopefully) previously knowing the negative connotations when used by white people, without all the shit-flinging.

 

[Marchosias]

I can, but I choose not to. It's not really out of any ethical or logical reasoning, I know why the word is possibly offensive and the background behind it. It's just that I don't particularly like or enjoy hurting or getting under anyone's skin (@Marchosias) in that way. Sure, I can be a great big tease but I never use something like that against other people.

At the end of it? I just don't enjoy seeing other people get upset or have their feelings hurt. I don't like being the cause of it.

I'd see it as a fair-turnaround. At least from the impresion I got, that black ppl refer to every woman they meet as a "bitch" or "hoe". Not sure how acurate that is, since I mostly got that impresion from the movies (we dont have alot of blacks here, I can count the number of them I seen on 1 hand), but if it is true, then I'd have all the more incentive to get under ther skin... deep. Political corectness is for pussys.

I love that Stephen Fry quote btw Gwazi - he hits it right on the head. Ppl being ofended by something. Big fucking deal. Like I sayed in one of the other threads, ppl need to grow thicker skin.