Demographics 12: Villainy!

[Brovo]

@Staff: Keep in mind that (with Diana's permission and Astaroth overlooking it) I'm posting threads in GC first, leaving them there for a week, and then moving them to RP Help & Discussion after! This way, my demographics threads can have the widest breadth of community input without asking for unfair administration favouratism. Thanks.

Special Thanks: @Hana & @RedWillow who are helpers on the Demographics project.

Credit goes to @RedWillow for creating the banner.​

Demographics

Demographics threads are, essentially, an attempt to record the community's thoughts and feelings on RP-related subject matter via a series of votes. Iwaku's tastes, habits, et cetera. If you want further information on prior demographics threads, you can find the demographics hub thread here. (There are ten other Demographics Polls to check stats on & vote in so far!)

Demo threads are not an appropriate place for hardcore multipage debates. You can ask questions about each other's positions, but keep them professional in tone. Otherwise, the spirit of the demographics threads will be lost. They're meant to sample the community and put it into an easily digestible form of numbers that anybody can look at later when creating their own RP threads or when curious about Iwaku's general demographics. If you're really interested in discussing the subject matter, create your own discussion thread. I would be delighted if demographics threads started to spawn further topics of interest by the community itself.

Previous Community Choice Poll

• A. Pace: 1
• B. Politics: 0
• C. Mechanics: 1
• D. Power Levels: 1
• E. RP Completion: 1
• F. Character Depth: 3
• G. Romance: Pursuer vs Pursued: 2
• H. Villainy: 4 (Winner--most votes!)
• I. Surprise me: 0

Question: Which of these forms of evil is your favourite?
Clarity: Basically as the question posits. What kind of evil is your favourite to either play as, or encounter in a story? Keep in mind that what is considered good and evil is inherently subjective. Also, keep in mind that an antagonist doesn't necessarily have to be evil and vice versa. You can have evil protagonists, or good antagonists. If you need further clarity on the answers, you can find it here.

Additional Questions

• Q. What did you vote for on the poll?
• Q. Which form of evil do you dislike the most?
• Q. Would you say you regularly play evil characters?
• Q. Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?
• Q. (1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?
• Q. (Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?

Community Choice Poll: Vote for the topic of the next poll! (You can choose multiple options. To vote, simply post in this thread which option(s) you want.) (Yes, this poll will shrink in size at some point. Some topics dead end after a while. )

• A. Pace. (How fast RP's go/how fast you and the rest of the community post on average.) (Single-choice poll.)
• B. Politics. (New topic expansion: Polling to see the community's general interest in how politics manifests in role playing.) (Single or Multiple choice poll.)
• C. Mechanics. (New topic expansion: Polling to see the community's general interest in how artificial mechanics like dice rolls and stats influence role playing.) (Single or Multiple choice poll.)
• D. Power Levels. (As a follow up to "Genres" and "Character Archetypes." Has to do with the average level of power player characters possess.) (Single choice poll.)
• E. RP Completion. (As a follow up to "Longevity." Has to do with how many have successfully completed role plays, and/or how many completed role plays they have.) (Single choice poll.)
• F. Character Depth. (New topic expansion: Polling to see the community's general interest in how facets of character creation and development function.) (Single or Multiple choice poll.)
• G. Romance: Pursuer vs Pursued. (Specific follow up to "Romance." Has to do with whether someone prefers to be pursued or do the pursuing in romantic arcs. Will be gender divided for further clarity and curiosity.) (Single choice poll.)
• H. Good vs Evil. (Specific follow up to "Villainy." Has to do with the proportion of characters created which players perceive to be good or evil, or who fall somewhere in between.) (Single choice poll.)
• I. Surprise me. (None of the above.)

 

[Razilin]

Question: Which of these forms of evil is your favourite?

Psychopathic Evil. Because of this crazy-awesome mother fucker:

He's like the Joker, only better because 1) Magic and 2) Actually destroyed the world

Suck it, Sephiroth

Additional Questions

• Q. What did you vote for on the poll?
  • Psychopathic Evil. These guys are just fun and wacky to watch. Its like a train wreck. You can't look away. Because if you do, they may (or may not) shank you. And if they don't shank you while you're looking, they might shank you later for some completely superfluous reason.
  • One-dimensional? Probably. Love to hate them? Absolutely. There is no redemption here. Just evil incarnate, whether its from nihilism, sadism, or just wanting to see the world burn. They are the evil that everyone thinks is just too simplistic, so everyone underestimates them.
  • You know who else thought that? Batman (The Dark Knight), Gestahl and the Returners (FF6), Spider-Man and Venom (Marvel Comics). You know what happened? Joker, Kefka, and Carnage pushed their shit in. For LAWLZ.
• Q. Which form of evil do you dislike the most?
  • Well Meaning. Because its too three-dimensional. I want a villain who isn't redeemable and just deserves to die. But you kind of don't want him to die (as an audience) because unlike the Well-Meaning villain, the Psychopathic Villain is just so entertaining at what he does!
• Q. Would you say you regularly play evil characters?
  • Psychopathic Evil
• Q. Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?
  • Yes
• Q. (1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?
  • Yes; it would work well due to good communication and collaboration between players
• Q. (Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?
  • Yes, because LAWLZ

 

[Jorick]

Q. What did you vote for on the poll?

Practical evil, but it was a damn tough choice. I love morally grey characters, so it was a close decision between practical, well meaning, and anti-villain. Practical won out in the end because it fits most of my favorite villains better than any of the others.

Q. Which form of evil do you dislike the most?

Sadistic evil. Being evil for the sake of being evil ends up being boring. Sadistic evil characters usually start out or eventually end up (given enough time) feeling like tools for the writer to have crazy gory shit rather than actual characters. "I just want to hear their screams" is not a very compelling motivation for a character to go kill a bunch of people, for example. It can be really novel for a while, and I don't mind the gore, but it eventually ends up boring me.

Q. Would you say you regularly play evil characters?

Not regularly, no. One big reason for this is my aforementioned love of morally grey characters. I'd rather play someone who can't easily be strictly cast as either a hero or a villain than a flat out evil character. It's also kinda rare for roleplays that I'm interested in to present a premise and such that make an evil character a sensible choice. I've got no problem playing them though.

Q. Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?

Absolutely. I'm all about character development arcs in roleplays, and they don't always have to go in positive ways. Haven't ever managed to pull off a hero making a full face-heel turn, but I've gotten quite a few to go from shiny white paragons of good to morally grey shitbags. :D

Q. (1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?

Sure. Could work just fine, but how it works depends entirely on the premise and exactly what kind of good and evil we're talking about. Sadistic evil would not play very well in a romance plot with a noble paladin who sees it as their duty to protect the weak and smite all evil, but you could absolutely do some kind of antagonistic fighty one on one with those archetypes. Well meaning evil could play very well with or against an idealist who sees the good in everyone. You could probably make any combination of good and evil archetypes work in a one on one so long as you have the right premise.

Q. (Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?

Not always. Sometimes it just doesn't make any sense, sometimes it does. The more morally grey the world, the more likely it's okay. It's really hard to justify in a morally black and white world. The premise and intended plot of the roleplay could also make it not work. It is absolutely not a necessary feature of a roleplay, but it's nice to have the option when it makes sense because having that level of basic moral tension between player characters is fun.


For the poll, I choose Character Depth.

 

[Astaroth]

I have. The whole premise of the story seems really dumb. Killing people in prisons or in trial to deter crime? Not to mention killing anyone in his way as well? Even if we ignore the fact that in the real world, crime would'nt stop and people would just take extra pains not to get caught, the whole story seems based on the MC's megalomania. All of the "villains" killed in the story were either already caught or rowdy assholes that were swinging their schlongs around in public. I know Death Note is really popular and all that, but it frustrates me to no end

Oh thank god. Someone else who doesn't like Death Note. I actually find the cast as a whole to be seriously unrelatable and uninteresting. Which is a shame, because the cast are also basically entirely evil and that could have been a great setup. I actually would point to Death Note as an example of how not to do villains or antiheroes (sorry, Kaga, just how I feel).

 

[Kestrel]

• Q. What did you vote for on the poll?

Practical evil. Mostly because I wanted to see the poll results. While I do love me some charming, self-serving bastards, it's often a combination of motivations that does it for me.

• Q. Which form of evil do you dislike the most?

None. I mean you'd expect people to hate sadistic villains, but then why are Sauron and Voldemort so effective at their job? You just use their kind differently and treat it as alien and unknown. Arguably Voldemort lost a lot of his threat factor because of reveals but you knooooooow.

• Q. Would you say you regularly play evil characters?

Nope. Evil means to take joy in the suffering of others and er... You close of a lot of relationship dynamics that way.

• Q. Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?

As long as it isn't through angst, but yes.

• Q. (1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?

Master x Slave anyone? I mean that's basically what that boils down to as far as I've seen. Personally, I'm not opposed to pairing a 'good' character with an 'evil' character, but their dynamic needs to be more than a one-trick pony. Which is... Not hard but takes some thought.

• Q. (Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?

Depends on the RP. I mean you can't have a hero association with one dude who goes on random murder sprees being part of the team. At the same time, take a more desperate post-apocalyptic scenario were manpower is limited and giant alien monsters are threatening to fuck up humanity and suddenly ethics are a lot more blurry when the assholes have guns to shoot at said aliens. It's contextual.

 

[Darog]

• Q. What did you vote for on the poll?
• A. Well Meaning Villain though I would've chose Sadistic on another day, I like these the most. Well Meaning are often the best written, but when you get that one good Sadistic Villain? Damn they can be really good too.
• Q. Which form of evil do you dislike the most?
• A. Possibly Practical Evil since I both haven't come across much or wrote the type. It's not "Dislike" in the "I don't dislike" I'd probably use the word "indifferent" honestly
• Q. Would you say you regularly play evil characters?
• A. Yeah, I prefer to write characters have suffered a fall from grace/traumatic experience to lead them to their current state of mind. It's interesting and quite versatile. Though I will say I play more "Antagonistic" characters than "Villainous" since both terms aren't quite the same but often interchangeable.
• Q. Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?
• A. Have done, I like it.
• Q. (1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?
• A. It can work on so many ways honestly, one of them pointed out by @Dervish
• Q. (Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?
  A. I don't see why not? Villainous character doesn't need to be an Antagonist all the time. I think it boils down mostly to quality, in my opinion on whether the individual can actually pull it off.

 

[Pahn]

Question: Which of these forms of evil is your favourite?

It was so difficult to choose x_x But in the end I selected Practical Evil.


Additional Questions

• Q. What did you vote for on the poll?
  • Practical evil, though a close second was necessary evil.
• Q. Which form of evil do you dislike the most?
  • The form of evil which makes me most uncomfortable is sadistic evil.
• Q. Would you say you regularly play evil characters?
  • I do not, but given the chance I would love to.
• Q. Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?
  • Hah! I would love to, personally it's one of the reasons I loved the Star Wars prequels, because Anakin just up and "turned" evil because of his human and emotional nature. Beautiful.
• Q. (1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?
  • I definitely think it would work well -- like one character who has hidden, "evil" intentions, leading the other character on. omg it would be amazing ;__;
• Q. (Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?
  • Hmmm I think they should, but they should be working closely with the GM to make sure there is no godmodding involved.

Community Choice Poll:

• F. Character Depth.
• G. Romance: Pursuer vs Pursued.
• H. Good vs Evil.

 

[Brovo]

Q. What did you vote for on the poll?

Anti-Villain, because it was a single-choice only poll, though I was really stuck on which one to vote for. I like anti-villains from a player perspective, there's more to interact with there since I can add emotional elements like sympathy to the pot that I can't add with most of the others.

Q. Which form of evil do you dislike the most?

Sadistic Evil. Whether as a player or as a GM, it's just so pointless and dumb. It might work for an all-consuming beast, but that's about it really. Applying the mindset to something conscious just gets an idiot ball carrying villain.

Q. Would you say you regularly play evil characters?

I'm a GM more often than not, so yes. That being said, most antagonists my players face in any plot I write can typically be classified as either darker shades of grey, or who hold belief systems that are alien to the player perspective. Most outright evil antagonists I create tend to fall into the "psychopathic" "practical" and "necessary" categories. There's always a modus operandi to their evil too: Senseless evil is boring to square off against.

Q. Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?

Yes, and I've done so, and it's always such a macabre and yet fascinating series of events to watch.

Q. (1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?

Probably not. Not unless I was seriously very well sold on the idea. Good and evil hold values intrinsically opposite one another, it would take a lot of jerryrigging to make the two work together without one essentially immediately compromising on basic values and methodology.

Q. (Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?

Villains outright? No, you're just asking for trouble. Then again, I have a policy as a GM not to allow PvP except under strictly regulated circumstances. I've had far too many petty bitch fights erupt out of nowhere because two people refused to allow themselves to lose, and kept insisting that "fighting takes skill bruh." (Yeah, that skill is called "knowing how to write a good story" you twats. Hahahahaha!) Even putting aside that it'll likely cause PvP, pure evil at its core is destructive. It always is in the end, no matter the intentions. The Anti-Villain is, strictly speaking, the only one that might achieve a long term objective that isn't destructive, and even they usually only end up creating something that'll fall apart when they die.

Evil is best defined as a person pursuing selfish objectives to the open and knowing detriment and suffering of others, with degrees of evil determined by how many suffer and how much suffering is endured by those people. So, in order to make evil interesting (and not just destructive to everything), it needs a modus operandi. It needs a reason to exist, no matter how alien the idea might be from a modern or western perspective.

 

[Hana]

• Q. What did you vote for on the poll?

I chose the anti-villain because they're always the ones I'm most curious about in a story. How does their mind work, what caused them to be the way they are? Anti-villains are also one of the types of villains that are more difficult for me to hate, even if despite their good qualities, they have ultimately detrimental or evil objectives.

• Q. Which form of evil do you dislike the most?

... None? I can't say I actually hate any form of evil, even if I hate certain villains and that just depends on how they are portrayed and what they do in the story. Sadistic and psychopathic evil may seem shallow or pointless at first, but there's a reason famous villains who are definitely in those strains of evils work for the audience.

• Q. Would you say you regularly play evil characters?

If the plot needs it and I am the one who drives forward the plot, I can play 'evil' characters, though I digress that it all depends on perspective. In Mononoke-hime, you would argue that Lady Eboshi from Irontown is an evil character, but is she really that bad? From the perspective of the women she's saved from brothels, she's given them a better life and she's fighting against an inhuman entity such as the gods of nature. From another perspective, she is evil due to the way she destroys a lot of the environment. It depends.

• Q. Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?

It would be interesting to try, yes.

• Q. (1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?

Yes, I think it could work, with the right plot or premise. There are many different combinations of good and evil characters out there, there would eventually be one that works.

• Q. (Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?

If I can trust the player who wants to play a villain to do it well and to not fuck the plot up, but instead add something interesting to the mix, then sure. But I'll monitor that player and that character very carefully and will step in if they do something out of line or derails the story. And evil characters are alright, even if they aren't outright the antagonists the characters would have to go against. I'd rather handle that if I'm the one in charge of the roleplay and the plot.

 

[Fox of Spades]

What did you vote for on the poll?

• Necessary Evil. Anti-Villain would have been my second choice. I prefer villains who have redeeming qualities, are somewhat likable, and are more than murderous cardboard cutouts with awesome evil villain laughs.

Which form of evil do you dislike the most?

• Sadistic Evil.

Would you say you regularly play evil characters?

• I don't have too many evil characters. OwO I need to make more, I have a big bad from a RP I used to GM though and a handful of lesser villains from elsewhere. Most of my evil characters end up being affably evil though.

Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?

• If it helps advance the plot, sure xD. Sounds fun too.

(1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?

• Yeah, that could be interesting :D. As long as both have NPCs on both sides, I'd be down to try something like this.

(Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?

• It depends on the RP and GM really. Personally, I wouldn't be for it unless I know the player well and know they'll communicate with me throughout and keep me updated @ plans and etc. If that's the case, then collaborating with them could prove beneficial to the RP's plot, but otherwise, if an undercover villain is needed, I think I'd prefer to play them myself in order to keep my evil plans a surprise. Maybe have one or two people in on the evil plot to help me out here and there.

 

[Vicious Radiance]

• Q. What did you vote for on the poll?

I picked sadistic evil, because sadistic anything is deliiiiiiiiiicious when it's done well @W@

• Q. Which form of evil do you dislike the most?

Honestly? I wouldn't pick anything off this list. All of these broad archetypes can be written with depth and skill, or as cheesy 2-dimensional "for the evulz" types, and it all depends on the player! So, really, my least favourite kind of evil would have to be the badly executed kind. :U

• Q. Would you say you regularly play evil characters?

For a lot of definitions of evil, yeah. My characters tend to be very morally gray, and generally at least a little twisted. So depending on your view, they could be villains, or heroes, or both.

• Q. Would you ever play a hero who falls to evil?

That sounds fun as hell, so yes.

• Q. (1x1 RP's): Would you consider an RP where one person plays a good character, and the other an evil character? How do you think it would work?

It would reeeeeally have to depend on the other player. Sometimes you get this fantastically tortured dynamic where two people of vastly different ideologies and moral compass are forced to deal with how much they care for one another, and other times you wind up stuck with someone who just wants to use your villain as their good guy's punching bag, with no interest in your character besides how badass defeating you makes them look. Which is never fun, trust me. >M>

• Q. (Group RP's): Do you think players should be allowed to play as villains in a party of good characters and vice versa, or no? Why, or why not?

Once again, depends on the group! If the characters' motivations match up to the point that they can work together, and the odd one out on the alignment scale won't make things too difficult for the other players by trying to disrupt and complain about their plans and activities, then it can make for fantastic RP! I'm in a tabletop RPG right now playing a serial killer alongside an incredibly morally upright law enforcement type, and let me tell you that is a LAUGH RIOT. :D