DEBATE: REMOVAL OF DEBATE TAG

[Kestrel]

From what I understood the debate tag was removed due to the negative association with it it bringing up the worst in people. As soon as you call something a debate, everyone's e-dicks are on the table. Call it a discussion and... People are less likely to roleplay angry, screeching baboons flinging shit at each other when stating their opinions. I think that's sorta what I heard.

Also the moderation force isn't a policing force. I'd explain why but alla you have been on the internet long enough to know where that is going, so let's try to adjust our expectations a little.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

From what I understood the debate tag was removed due to the negative association with it it bringing up the worst in people. As soon as you call something a debate, everyone's e-dicks are on the table. Call it a discussion and... People are less likely to roleplay angry, screeching baboons flinging shit at each other when stating their opinions. I think that's sorta what I heard.

Also the moderation force isn't a policing force. I'd explain why but alla you have been on the internet long enough to know where that is going, so let's try to adjust our expectations a little.

It's almost as if Diana already described this earlier in the thread. :P

Shame they aren't a police force though.
Then I could be staff and drive around the forums with a siren. :3

 

[Jorick]

You guys should be real damn grateful that we aren't a police force. I can't speak for the other staff people, but I know I'd give some of you the full police brutality treatment when you step out of line. >:[

 

[Kestrel]

You guys should be real damn grateful that we aren't a police force. I can't speak for the other staff people, but I know I'd give some of you the full police brutality treatment when you step out of line. >:[

Infracting minorities is now racism.

 

[redblood]

Police force? Please can we be a police force. I wanna have a legal way of being racist and murder people without getting thrown into prison for it :D

 

[Hellis]

AND NOTHING OF (Comparative) VALUE WAS LOST.

Edit: I am pretty sure Jorick with a police badge is the single scariest though I had all week.

 

[Tegan]

Maybe it'll be better if we're just focusing on our common interest, rather than shoving our precious little opinions down each others throats. Most of us (yes, I include myself) get all fired up in these click-bait, hot button debate topics, and make enemies of those that we would otherwise A.) Get along with or B.) Barring that, at least coexist peacefully together on the forum.


So, what's more important, Iwaku? Having our precious little opinions known? Or roleplaying?

 

[Kestrel]

Maybe it'll be better if we're just focusing on our common interest, rather than shoving our precious little opinions down each others throats. Most of us (yes, I include myself) get all fired up in these click-bait, hot button debate topics, and act make enemies of those that we would otherwise A.) Get along with or B.) Barring that, at least coexist peacefully together on the forum.


So, what's more important, Iwaku? Having our precious little opinions known? Or roleplaying?

Ideally, it shouldn't be an X or Y question, but rather how can we roleplay and exchange ideas without being massive dicks? This is also what the change reflects.

The important part we forget is that debate isn't about convincing the other party, but convincing the audience. This is why the moment you start throwing things like ad hominem (criticizing a person rather than the idea they present) around you lose. This however, is a very difficult concept to grasp, much less act out, for a great many people. As such, circumstance forces our hand to disassociate exchange of ideas with the label debate.

Personally I think it is important that we focus on gaining insight in why other parties think X instead of Y about Z concept. We may not agree with them, but understanding the reason people think what they do will help you cooperate to reach common goals as well as present your arguments in a way that they in turn may build a greater understanding of your views. Key point being understanding > agreement. After all. If we'd all agree on everything, we'd be throwing our humanity away.

 

[Tegan]

Ideally, it shouldn't be an X or Y question, but rather how can we roleplay and exchange ideas without being massive dicks? This is also what the change reflects.

The important part we forget is that debate isn't about convincing the other party, but convincing the audience. This is why the moment you start throwing things like ad hominem around you lose. This however, is a very difficult concept to grasp, much less act out, for a great many people. As such, circumstance forces our hand to disassociate exchange of ideas with debate.

Personally I think it is important that we focus on gaining insight in why other parties think X instead of Y about Z concept. We may not agree with them, but understanding the reason people think what they do will help you cooperate to reach common goals as well as present your arguments in a way that they in turn may build a greater understanding of your views. Key point being understanding > agreement. After all. If we'd all agree on everything, we'd be throwing our humanity away in the first place.

I see your point and would normally agree. But, is debate really what Iwaku is for? There are many outlets on the internet that cater to that sort of thing. Why does a roleplay site have to be one of them? Especially after all the issues that have cropped up, in such a large scale compared to what we've usually seen, over the past year or so. Perhaps, in order to maintain harmony so that we can pursue our common interest, we just behave the way most of us were taught to behave in mixed company and just...keep our opinions to ourselves? What harm could come of not discussing our views on guns, feminism, abortion, politics, religion, etc. on a roleplay website? Now, the staff has to work double time, moderating the roleplay forums (which is what they signed up for this job for) and moderating a debate. That has to get tedious really quick.

What members talk about in private conversation is one thing. But does that conversation need to be had in a public place, with a big shiny sign on it?

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Tl;dr - I couldn't give less of a fuck about your opinions, I just wanna tell cool stories with people.

 

[Tegan]

Basically what Grumpy said, yeah. I was just trying to be diplomatic this time around.

 

[Kestrel]

I see your point and would normally agree. But, is discussion and debate really what Iwaku is for? There are many outlets on the internet that cater to that sort of thing. Why does a roleplay site have to be one of them? Especially after all the issues that have cropped up, in such a large scale compared to what we've usually seen, over the past year or so. Perhaps, in order to maintain harmony so that we can pursue our common interest, we just behave the way most of us were taught to behave in mixed company and just...keep our opinions to ourselves? What harm could come of not discussing our views on guns, feminism, abortion, politics, religion, etc. on a roleplay website?

It takes away a form of expression, an underlying human desire that roleplay and debate/discussion share. When I'm out in a bar and I can't voice or explain my disagreement with a statement someone on the other side of the table makes, I feel uncomfortable in that situation. I don't need to pull out a verbal jackhammer, but I want at least a way to distance myself from sentiments I disagree with. If people are allowed to bring these topics up, there must be a place for people to voice contrasting ideas or feelings. You can't stop people from bringing this stuff up without hardcore censoring these topics, ie policing the site. It's not a bad thing to disagree with someone, as long as you channel your feelings proper.

It's hard to deny there's been a lot of drama and locks, but as I understand it, Iwaku doesn't want to censor or flat-out deny expression, so we are looking for alternate ways to have our cake and eat it too.

 

[Tegan]

Why not just...subtly, and artfully channel thoughts and views into fictional writing?

And on that note, I'm out. I feel like I'm saying the same thing over and over and I don't want to clog the...Debate/Discussion satire thread with redundancy.


*Tap dances stage left*

 

[Kestrel]

Why not just...subtly, and artfully channel thoughts and views into your fictional writing?

Because people use different outlets for different feelings. Thematically, I don't want to roleplay about why I'm pro-choice rather than pro-life; I want to roleplay about swords and sorcery or dogfights in space. I also tend to write characters with political and social views that differ from my own. This makes them shitty soapboxes. Hopefully that answers your question.

 

[Tegan]

 

[Hecatoncheires]

Everyone meet Tegan's spirit animal.

 

[redblood]

As Diana has said

There is nothing stopping people from having back and forth intense discussions in a discussion thread. Start an actual debate if you want to. @____@ They aren't banned.

There is also the option of taking it to PM if you want to actually debate hot headedly back and forth and you think it might not be appreciated in the actual thread either because of a statement the thread owner has made or because a moderator has told or you think they will tell you to calm down. No one will stop you when it's in PM as long as all participants wants to continue it in PM. The only time staff will stop you if you debate in PMs is if one person starts insulting/threatening another person during the debate and they decides to report it or if someone starts spamming someone's inbox to get them to debate them even though they don't feel like it.

 

[Gonzo]

*insert unnecessary comment here*

 

[Zen]

MORE RAINBOWS. MORE UNICORNS. MORE SPARKLES. MOOOOORRRREEEEEEE.

 

[Ochalla]

Once upon a December there was an orphaned space marine who lost his memory. Out in the cold, he comes across a unicorn who informs him that if he follows the rainbow he would be lead back to his comrades. Many adventures later, in a day dewed like sparkles, he comes across a forgotten battle field. I was here, that all his comrades were laid waste. With a flood of memories he recalls it all and knows what he must do!