DEA to ban Kratom in the U.S.

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by SacredWarrior, Sep 8, 2016.

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  1. The DEA is trying to ban yet another safe alternative to pills and opiates. This time it's Kratom. I've never used it but some of my friends and relatives have. Has anyone else heard about this and if so, what are your thoughts? This video explains everything and it's funny!

     
  2. "Adverse effects are similar to opioids and include hallucinations, psychosis, seizures, agitation, tachycardia, nausea, constipation, bowel obstruction, drowsiness, respiratory depression (normal breathing is reduced, which can lead to carbon dioxide poisoning and death), reduced appetite, itching, sweating, dry mouth, and increased urination. There is a risk of addiction." -Wikipedia.

    And, because Wikipedia is not always the most reliable source, here's some medical research for you.

    This drug definitely counts among the harder types of drugs, like cocaine or heroin. Not like weed. :ferret:
     
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  3. Weed has medical properties, but has a bad side as well. I have never had a good crossing with weed. My ex-gf’s brother smoked weed for years, and his brain is pretty much fried. He is one of the dumbest people I have ever met. He stole money from a drug dealer and then went and tried to hideout in my ex’s house. I’m surprised he isn’t dead.

    Second, I came upon a head on vehicle accident where a semi truck hit a school bus carrying a softball team. Of course, I helped pull girls out of the bus, and gave CPR to avail on a couple occasions as I watched them die in my hands. (Long, long, long, story very very short.) Of course, after doing the toxicology, the Semi truck driver that had crossed the grass median and hit the bus, was high on weed. For whatever reason he was driving under the influence and killed 4 people because of it.

    Weed should only be legal for prescription and should be highly regulated like most prescription drugs. A drug is a drug for a reason. Whether illegal or not. Weed is not harmless. I have seen how it is not harmless firsthand. I learn how it is not harmless when I watched lives end in my hands, because of someone smoking weed and driving.

    Also, I hate how people criminalize the DEA for banning things or making them illegal. That is usually for the general public. DEA regulates over the counter drugs and you can get those with a prescription. The same can be done with weed as a medicine, as well as other drugs.

    But I’ll never support the complete legalization of it for recreational use.
     
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  4. People who suffer averse side effects from marijuana usually mix it with something that's bad. Like PCP or heroin. Weed alone only kills one thing: food in your house. I should know because I've seen it. I know many people that smoke marijuana and they function just fine. Plus people have benefited from alternatives like kratom far more than the bullshit the DEA gives us. Don't use confirmation bias to fuel your argument because the opposition can do it just as well if not better. I've never had a bad crossing with weed (except for the horrible scent).

    People hate the DEA because of how hypocritical they are. They want us to use pills and opiates despite the fact that people get addicted to them all the time and OD on them every year. Why aren't they illegal by that logic? They don't want alternatives because they're losing money. Greed basically. The DEA is mostly full of shit just like the NRA. They don't know shit about the general public and only see us as dollar signs and experiments.

    Alcohol kills more people than weed ever did and it's a completely legal, regulated substance. Same goes for cigarettes. The War On Drugs was a massive failure and needs to end NOW. There is NO good argument for it. Banning things DOES NOT WORK. We tried banning alcohol and that didn't work. What makes drugs like weed any different? It's one thing to ban heroin and ecstasy since they actually do cause harm and have no benefits. But to ban something because it's an alternative to what you give and some people prefer it more makes you look sleazy and greedy. Your experiences don't matter because for one bad thing you say, good things can be said.

    The video I shared pretty much said all of my points. Weed should be completely legalized and regulated just like any other drug. Yes that includes recreational use. Just because you had a bad experience with weed doesn't support your point. I've had to deal with alcoholics in my family but you don't hear me calling for another Prohibition now do you? By that logic, I should but I won't. Why? Because not everyone is me or anyone I know that has been affected by it. As being high while driving, just make that illegal just like drinking and driving.

    If you don't like weed, then don't smoke it. It's that simple. Other people shouldn't have to suffer because of your past experiences with something.
     
    #4 SacredWarrior, Sep 9, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
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  5. Other people suffer from not being able to use it recreationally? If you go back through what I said, I stated that I support the medicinal use of it. Not the full legalization for recreational use. If people are suffering because they can’t recreationally use weed, then it sounds like a problem.

    Your argument just went into the political spectrum and your true colors came out with how you feel about the DEA and NRA. It pretty much told me everything I need to know about why to not continue this conversation.
     
  6. I identify as an independent and have no political spectrum. The only group I identify with most are Libertarians and even then I disagree with them about some things. If you're gonna make assumptions about someone's political views, get them right. Also don't dismiss someone just because they think differently than you when it comes to politics and the government. Pot meet kettle.

    Medicinal use can turn into recreational use. Back to my point about people popping pills and opiates. It is a problem if you can give no good, logical argument about criminalizing marijuana which has done more harm than good. All you used was confirmation bias that could've easily been applied to alcohol as well. Like I said before, if you don't like weed, then don't smoke it. But don't make your feelings law and tell other people not to do it just because you had bad experiences with it. That's what I mean by other people suffering.
     

  7. Neither will I. No drug can be rightfully or morally used for "recreation". Drugs are for treating medical conditions... if you don't have the medical condition a drug was intended to treat, then you shouldn't be taking that drug.

    Weed? As you've noted, it makes its users dumb. Weed is called "dope" for a reason.
     
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  8. True but I'd rather have people using Kratom instead of those since the former hasn't actually killed anyone unlike the latter two.
     
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  9. Actually, it's been linked to 15 deaths in America alone and a myriad of other deaths in South East Asia. It appears to be that when a person gains an addiction to the drug, like psychoactive drugs, it instills a need in the user to keep taking more of it to get equal results, which ends in death. There are also likely some who simply misused it and overdosed on it from simply not understanding how much of it is a "safe" dosage.

    Kratom should definitely be classified under the harder drugs. It's not the hardest drug out there, but it's definitely at least a mid-tier dangerous drug that should be a controlled substance--like morphine.
    I'm so, so sorry this happened to you. I'm quoting this for no other reason than to say that you have, at least in this moment, a profound level of respect from me for trying to be a hero.
    The DEA, like any political organization, is affected by the politics of the times. They are there for the general protection of the state and the people who live within it, but it's a reasonable precaution to have some measure of doubt and double check their work. That's the scientific thing to do, anyway. :ferret:
    Uhh...

    "Pills" is a rather broad term here. Most "pills" that people are talking about are regulated by the medical industry, you can't just randomly walk into a store and buy morphine, or codeine. The only drug I can think of which should be regulated better and isn't is Tylenol--but that's mainly because it came to exist before the DEA was anywhere near competent at their jobs.

    Some of the DEA's decisions are hypocritical (like why is hard liquor in excess of 40% legal for anyone over 18 to buy over the counter while marijuana isn't--the former is more lethal and more addictive than the latter), but in the broad scheme of things? No, they usually have some valid reason for wanting to be tepid about allowing some types of drugs.

    Keep in mind that the DEA exists as a wing of the government too. If you want the drug laws to relax, the DEA is not the appropriate target--the people who order the DEA their mandates are your target. Same as any other government department, they're just doing their jobs.
    No drug you say? Guess we should pull viagra off the shelves.

    In all seriousness: I do get what you're saying, though I personally take a more moderate position it. I generally tend to compare most drugs to alcohol, as alcohol is a drug in all ways but definition--and is a good measure by which to put other drugs.

    Kratom and Cocaine and Heroin are absolutely far worse than alcohol and hold significant ramifications for their users.

    Marijuana, on the other hand, is actually not as bad for you as most alcohol (certain kinds of wine not withstanding). Marijuana doesn't damage any internal organs, whereas alcohol can damage the brain, the liver, and infants within a pregnant woman.

    If alcohol can be legalized, so can marijuana. Whatever damage the latter does, the former does in far greater ways with lower dosages.

    Again, though, that's my two cents. Not really saying you're wrong, so much as providing a different view on the subject.
     
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  10. Fair point. The least the companies can do is use it for good and control/regulate it instead of outright trying to ban it.
     
  11. Soooooooo pharmacies and politicians?
     
  12. Ha! I just knew someone would bring this up! Thing is, "Viagra" was originally created as a heart medication... they just discovered it had this rather... ahem!... "interesting" side effect. So they decided to sell it as a treatment for ED. But of course, humans being humans, and especially men being male, they used it just for the "high". And some died. Or had other "issues" (Hello, Nurse!). Because it is a drug meant for treating a medical issue, though it's original medical intent became medically redirected.

    And then changed again, due to "public demand".
     
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  13. Hahahahaha, oh that's just sad.

    Thanks for telling me this though, now I know. This is amusing.
     
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  14. Indeed... now you know how "pharmacopeia" works. Things are not always as they seem.
     
  15. Due to my experiences, I am not the most qualified to talk about this subject objectively. However, at the same time, My experiences force me to speak about this topic. I don't judge anyone who uses it for any reason. I just have to say that weed is far from harmless.

    I drink a little bit of alcohol, but I have never gotten drunk. Due to my experiences, I wouldn't even be upset if alcohol was banned. I could completely understand why, due to the things I have seen.

    Also, as a Kinesiologist, weed may not damage internal organs, but the method of intake, can. Snaking damages the lungs, and even when using certain items that run vapor through water and other means, have also been shown to damage the lungs. As far as I know from research I have read, vaporizing is one of the few, if not only ways to intake it without causing body damage.

    The DEA can be hypocritical, just like any branch of the government. It isn't perfect, but I really have no sympathy for those breaking the law unless they need it for medical reasons.

    The war on drugs may be a failure, and I absolutely will admit that it is. I live in the meth Capitol of the world. So I know how much of a failure it has been, but what it does do is still make it more difficult to get these kinds of drugs for recreational use. I have no doubt that if they were made illegal, car fatalities will rise. People will try it and drive, just like with alcohol. Some may even have a alcohol and weed cocktail going on. Their are always people who think they can handle something, when they really can't. In my right conscious, I can't support something that could increase the chances of more fatal car accidents. Every time I hear about legalization, I think back to that accident. Those girls, talking to their parents. Listening to them talking to their parents on a cell phone thinking they are dying. I just can't support something that would increase the chances of that happening again. Even if that rubs people the wrong way, I don't care. It isn't harmless and I have watched people die terrible deaths because of it. Sorry, but not sorry if my lack of acceptance for it offends anyone.

    I have never said my way should be law. I just said that I will never support it. I didn't lump anyone into a political category. I'm an independent as well. I'm trying to avoid talking about politics. Im not the one jumping to conclusions. It seems words were put into my mouth. I never told anyone to not use it for any reason. I just said I will never support the legalization. If anyone wants to use it, that is their own business, not mine.

    I absolutely did provide a logical argument. Four, 18-22 year old girls are dead because someone smoked weed and then drove a semi truck. If driving under the influence, and subsequent manslaughter doesn't count as a logical argument for anything, then I don't really know what does.
     
    #16 Boba Fit, Sep 9, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
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  16. Confirmation bias isn't logical. What if that person was drinking alcohol? Would you still have your stance despite it being a much more lethal substance AND legal? Last time I checked, more people die from drunk driving than high driving. Using tragedies to push your point is not logical. It's emotional. There's a difference between providing an example and using confirmation bias. Emotional at that.

    Being high while driving should be treated the same as drinking and driving. Just because I support legalizing weed completely doesn't mean I don't support regulations for it. We do the same for alcohol which is much more dangerous. Weed is no different.

    You can't prevent things like this from happening by banning something. Back to my point about alcohol. Sometimes accidents happen and we can't do anything about it. That's the way the world works.
     
  17. ^ I say I'd have to agree with this. I mean, the Prohibition didn't solve any of the existing problems with alcohol use at the time -- if anything, it just made all of them worse. So I have to disagree that making weed legal would lead to more accidents like the one you described, @Boba Fit.

    I'm not trying to downplay the tragedy of the accident -- it's just that, one tragic event doesn't exactly make for a good use of statistics. And, yeah, at the end of the day, it's technically not a logical argument -- it's an emotional one. So while I definitely understand where you're coming from, well, I just don't agree that keeping marijuana illegal would be the right choice of action, logically speaking.

    ...

    Also, didn't this thread start off being about Kratom? I'm not sure how we jumped to weed.
     
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  18. Sorry about that. Instead of banning Kratom, I think the government should use it for good and research it. It could lead to bigger things and more money if they play their cards right. They're shooting themselves in the foot like always.
     
  19. The American government shooting itself in the foot? Preposterous. Next you'll tell me the world is round, and that politics is corruptible.
     
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