Confusion about Woman of the Year?

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Well you have to understand that the LGBT thing as a whole is completely new. Society doesn't know how to deal with it, NOR should it be forced to handle it in a particular way.

This is again why I am Libertarian. No side should be able to use the government to force others to think they way they do, be that "Traditional" or otherwise.

I saw this a while back and thought it was interesting. Not the "nobody is born that way", but how they say that "Homosexuality" is "new" to our culture. I know its not exactly on topic, but it IS interesting to think about. Nobody is 'born that way,' gay historians say
I get what you're saying, and at a part I do agree with the fact that no one should have ideals forced upon them. Even so your placement of this, right after I just said that we should still try and solve major civil rights issues of discrimination, does irk me a bit.

As for the ending paragraph in this quote, Homosexuality isn't really a new thing, in fact it's been with us for a very long time. During medieval times it was mostly ignored and was relatively acceptable. As time passed things got worse and worse and we basically created a monster of hate towards anyone different from the social norms. Only in recent times have we started the process to end this discrimination and try to form a more equal world.

Forgive me, I grew up both in America and Japan back and fourth every 4 to 6 months. Sometimes I am not thinking in the terms right. I thought you meant communities like a literal "city".
It's cool.

You mentioned that the psychiatrist was probably expressing a personal bias. I just wanted to explain that I look at everything from a stand point that it is a personal bias.

Government sites? Government is partisan politics, and bias towards whoever is in power. I could give examples, but it would open up too much to talk about in the conversation. And I feel the same way about college studies, because you can have two opposing studies and people will gravitate towards the one that fits their own bias.
Ahh right. Alrighty then.

As for Government sites, they aren't so much of politics as much as they are studies, facts and the like. I try grab from only the most reliable sources I can find at the time. So don't fear any bias in them like what you mentioned, because they're more just stating facts.

I want to refer to this again, I don't think there was a bias in the past because "being gay" in the past was not a thing to "Be", but more of an "action that one could take".
I feel like I should take great offence to this by the nature of how it is written. However I'll just want to calmly state that homosexual people have always been with us in history, and while at first they were not really a major thing to be against, as time passed discrimination grew more and more and only within the 21st century have we started to try and fix this problem.

Though assuming that is literally what you meant, than I suppose all is well here. Moving on.

I'm going to take this to task. With about half the population split down the center(basing this on the political divide, which I think is an accurate-ish measuring stick for this topic) , I don't think the "overall populace" things that way.

What I think it should think is "Live and Let live", or better put in my way "leave each other the fuck alone.". XD
That's basically what a lot of people want, though sadly the main problem is that we still have A LOT of homophobia, Sexism, racism, classism and the like that puts people down considerably and dehumanizes them for who they are, how they lived and what they are. This is very, very wrong and is a problem that many places face, not only the US. This is what I am talking about overall and is something that really does need discussion and to be solved, for no human should be dehumanized for anything less than committing acts that seriously harms or takes rights away from others.

Sadly this world isn't as 'live and let live' as we would all like, and it's going to take a long time and serious amounts of good progress to make it like such. At the speed of our progress though, I will say that, off of a personal assumption, five or six more generations and we would've finally probably fixed these issues.

"I have no mouth and must scream" has never been so properly placed.

In all seriousness though, what I meant by LGBT bullying statistics is, children who are gay or cross-dress to feel like their true selves getting harassed, bullied and harmed to the point where they refuse to go to their school, especially high-school and college students.

Though this does help with a new point. A lot of these domestic violence cases are probably a symptom of such bullying in the past, along with knowing nothing but hate, fear and just cruelty of other people's judgement. Even so. I think that domestic violence is REALLY hard to find since very few people actually WANT to report it, heterosexual or LGBT. No one wants to admit they are being abused and no one wants to admit that it's from their spouse. Those who do worked up that courage after a long, long time's worth of torment.

From what I gathered on that subject, it is actually relatively the same overall for both lgbt and heterosexuals. Though as said the results of how many domestic violence actually happen are very skewed and are likely higher statistic-wise than what we currently know.

http://gcfv.org/files/Are There Similarities and Differences Between Domestic.pdf
 
Its anecdotal again, but I have met very few people who seem to actually "hate" transgendered people just because they simply disagree with the concept.
I have! (And yes, this is an event that I witnessed in person -- though I'm not sure whether or not anything specifically outing trans people was kept in the final version, as I edited out a lot of stuff. Eh, just trust me when I say that he was pretty anti-trans in addition to everything else in the video.)

At any rate, I feel like the actual trans person's discomfort about having the wrong sex organs is a bit more important than the discomfort that other people would feel at the thought of them having that surgery. After all, it doesn't really affect anyone but the person getting the surgery, so... yeah.

Hate to come off as harsh, but, even if you feel uncomfortable at the thought of them having surgery, they probably feel a lot more uncomfortable about potentially not having the surgery, and there's a good chance that having it might make them feel a thousand times better about themselves, so... yeah, I don't think it's right to tell someone that they can't have this just because it might squick a few people out.

In the end, if other people are really so bothered by it, they can just ignore it.
 
Jesus christ. Get the fuck out. I don't always agree with Kak's opinion either, but it's obvious he isn't trying to start shit. Actually, it seems to be you that's the problem here. If you don't like reading about this shit so much, get the fuck out. Nobody is asking whether you like this thread or Kak or not, and to be honest, you posting what you have been posting here is the real wall headbutting, and the only one baiting is you. I bet you're just waiting for Kak to say something you can construe as mean so you can say "SEE, I WAS RIGHT GUYS, HAHA, AREN'T I THE BEST? STROKE MY DICK FOR ME."

Seriously man. You're a fucking moderator. You're supposed to be an example for the community and you are acting like a goddamned child. To see that you've been given no warnings here, or that (I'm assuming here) you haven't been quietly asked to stop posting by another mod or admin is actually fucking appalling. I've considered hitting the report button on you, but that would be pretty pointless because I'm talking to one of the authorities on the forum here, and it appears the general consensus is that your shit is golden. I'm pretty sick of it.
It seems like someone has stay up too late, please drink your milk and go to sleep. I am such that you regret saying that, but whatever mistakes are made.

Kakumei, you should of had done some research before asking that question on here. It isn't that hard to look it up and there are tons of people that had talked about the same thing. Now I wonder if you know what the letter 'B' stands from, since you didn't know what the LGBT community was...

Anyway, I think that if you feel like you're someone else, then try to be like that. Don't be dicks to them from feeling like that and try to love them no matter what.
 
AND HERE WAS ME THINKING WE WOULD BE FINISHED WITH BRICK WALL HEADBUTTING CONTESTS WHEN WE GOT RID OF THE DEBATE TAG.

GUESS THAT'S ME SHOWED.
Does this mean we get the pretty red tag back? :D
 
You have politicians who openly speak out against trans, and in transphobic manner. It was covered in the Youtube thing I posted. I suggest you look at it.
 
"I have no mouth and must scream" has never been so properly placed.
I'll scream for you. +Winks+ .... Sorry the other thread I am in is getting to my head a little. xD

In all seriousness though, what I meant by LGBT bullying statistics is, children who are gay or cross-dress to feel like their true selves getting harassed, bullied and harmed to the point where they refuse to go to their school, especially high-school and college students.
I know, thats why I.. tried... To explain that it was just extra (and interesting) information to look at.

Though this does help with a new point. A lot of these domestic violence cases are probably a symptom of such bullying in the past, along with knowing nothing but hate, fear and just cruelty of other people's judgement. Even so. I think that domestic violence is REALLY hard to find since very few people actually WANT to report it, heterosexual or LGBT. No one wants to admit they are being abused and no one wants to admit that it's from their spouse. Those who do worked up that courage after a long, long time's worth of torment.

From what I gathered on that subject, it is actually relatively the same overall for both lgbt and heterosexuals. Though as said the results of how many domestic violence actually happen are very skewed and are likely higher statistic-wise than what we currently know.

http://gcfv.org/files/Are There Similarities and Differences Between Domestic.pdf
I get what you are trying to say. Though everything else I see on google kinda shows that its till higher (per captia) among Lesbians. Gays seem to be about average. Its just interesting to me.

I have! (And yes, this is an event that I witnessed in person -- though I'm not sure whether or not anything specifically outing trans people was kept in the final version, as I edited out a lot of stuff. Eh, just trust me when I say that he was pretty anti-trans in addition to everything else in the video.)
I know, and everyones experiences are different. Thats why I said my example was anecdotal.

At any rate, I feel like the actual trans person's discomfort about having the wrong sex organs is a bit more important than the discomfort that other people would feel at the thought of them having that surgery. After all, it doesn't really affect anyone but the person getting the surgery, so... yeah.

Hate to come off as harsh, but, even if you feel uncomfortable at the thought of them having surgery, they probably feel a lot more uncomfortable about potentially not having the surgery, and there's a good chance that having it might make them feel a thousand times better about themselves, so... yeah, I don't think it's right to tell someone that they can't have this just because it might squick a few people out.
But I have never told or demanded people not to do it. I don't believe in telling anyone what to do with there life. That is why I am Libertarian. But that doesn't mean I can't tell people how I feel about it, and show them statistics that to me, seem to indicate that its not the wisest choice to make at least in my opinion.

I love and value differing opinions, I don't like being considered a bigot or hater for expressing my own.
Kakumei, you should of had done some research before asking that question on here. It isn't that hard to look it up and there are tons of people that had talked about the same thing. Now I wonder if you know what the letter 'B' stands from, since you didn't know what the LGBT community was...
1) I was taught to question people I know and value to learn about the world, not be spoon fed a carefully crafted explanation that is geared towards making you think a certain way.

2) B stands for Bisexual, which is totally me. I meant that I didn't understand the context of "community". As I explained before, I grew up being tossed between two cultures and languages. I don't always catch on tot hte proper context of everything being said.
Does this mean we get the pretty red tag back? :D
What if I bribed you with the possibility to see my breasts which may or may not exist? >.>
 
[/QUOTE]What if I bribed you with the possibility to see my breasts which may or may not exist? >.>[/QUOTE]


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You have politicians who openly speak out against trans, and in transphobic manner. It was covered in the Youtube thing I posted. I suggest you look at it
Yeah, but you have politicians that speak out for them and in a non "transphobic" manner. You don't progress society by having the same opinions all in lock step. You progress society through diversity of though.

Don't worry, I still plan to watch your video.

Can we have a rainbow tab and instead of calling it "Debate" we call it "Cluster Fuck"?
Marry me~
 
And I agree, people should be able to do anything they want as crazy or stupid as it may seem to anyone (or even everyone) else.

I'm simply getting tired of people saying that I am an idiot or a bigot because I can't logically square the idea of (really just the sex reassignment) part of transgendered.
Remember that thing you mentioned about people being assholes about all sorts of stuff? Don't pay too much attention to the assholes and you'll be fine.
Well again, I agree with live and let live. I'm just trying to understand the idea of why people get down on the idea of doing something so drastic to themselves. I don't want someone to do something so drastic and then kill themselves. That makes ME feel uncomfortable with myself for not being able to convey to someone how serious that could be.
I think it's largely a matter of lacking the perspective to understand their troubles. You haven't gone through the experiences of a trans person, so you can't really know what it's like to live day to day feeling like your body is wrong and what that constant sense of wrongness is like. Lacking that perspective, it's hard to have any sort of objectivity in calling whether or not the drastic measure is in fact a reasonable alternative to suffering through their life.

I used to be unable to square it away myself, in fact. It wasn't until I became friends with a trans person and talked to them about this stuff that I started to understand, and I wasn't until I divested my own emotions and preferences from the whole thing that I really got behind the idea that what I see as drastic might be seen as a fully reasonable basic need to someone else.
I mean "radical" in the sense of it being very extreme of a way to deal with the problem. Talking to someone who is a dick is a lot more reasonable then say, punching them in the face. If I am not mistaken, even in transgendered statistics, sex reassignment surgery is usually a very rare and last resort.
See above for why the apparent extremity of the option might not seem so extreme to those who it actually directly impacts.

As for how common it is, the one number I can find says 33% of trans people undergo some kind of gender surgery, which is higher than I expected. I'm not sure how truly reliable it is, but if it really is 1/3 then it may not be so rare after all. Still a last resort though, as far as I understand it.
But I thought that they were taking the hormones to change there body to match more how they feel? Isn't emotion dictated by brain chemistry? Or am I way off base?
Hormones are part of brain chemistry, and emotion is indeed affected by it. Whether or not it's dictated, meaning we have no control over it and are at the whims of the chemicals in our brains, is a completely separate discussion about free will and determinism, but that might just be me being a pedantic asshole.

Anyway, yeah, hormones are taken to get their body to match up to how they feel, both on a body and brain level. Men and women have rather different hormones running through their bodies on average, and they affect all sorts of stuff. Hormone therapy for trans people is aimed at making their hormone levels match up with the gender they identify as.
See I have to drastically disagree. Hate is an emotion and would have to be inherent for it to be legitimate. Hate is based on intent and even more so on action. If you feel "uncomfortable" that doesn't mean that someone should think you feel hatred.
Eh, to be blunt, you're simply wrong here. Interpretation is what determines how someone reacts to something, not intent. If you intend to hold a door open for someone but you accidentally slam it into their face and they think the shocked look on your face is actually an angry one, they might interpret that event as you maliciously smashing their face with a door. It doesn't matter that your intent was good and you had no hate in your mind, if that person reads the events as a hateful thing then they're going to react to it as a hate-fueled action. This is simply how the human mind works. You can resist such urges, certainly, but if your quick read on something is a certain way then your instinctual/gut reaction will follow that interpretation before you can really stop yourself.

In the door example you can then explain yourself and clear it up and it'll all be fine. If a trans person sees someone on a talk show talking about how all trans people are weird, they could read that as hateful (likely being way too oversensitive, but again interpretation is what matters, not how rational it is) and there's no chance for rebuttal. That's what I mean when I say there can be some splash damage. Even if it's not directed at the person, even if there wasn't any actual hate intended, if someone sees it as hateful and has a personal negative reaction to it then it has the same impact as if they had heard something truly meant with hate.

It's easy enough to dismiss that with "well whatever, they're overreacting, that's their problem," but that doesn't change the fact that each such event might be another punch right to their self esteem. Enough of those might drive them into depression, and then further into attempting suicide. It's not something that you can really prevent, because some people might take even totally innocuous things as hateful and directed against them or a group they identify with, but just brushing it off because it's irrational would make you kind of foolish. You can try to police your own phrasing super hard to try to avoid this, or maybe you'll just say fuck it and say whatever you like and sucks to be whoever gets some negative feelings because of it (and I will admit that this is my approach in life), but ignoring the reality of the impact words and statements can have on people is dumb and just as irrational as this awkward phenomenon of human psychology.
 
Remember that thing you mentioned about people being assholes about all sorts of stuff? Don't pay too much attention to the assholes and you'll be fine.
Ahaha... Right.

I think it's largely a matter of lacking the perspective to understand their troubles. You haven't gone through the experiences of a trans person, so you can't really know what it's like to live day to day feeling like your body is wrong and what that constant sense of wrongness is like. Lacking that perspective, it's hard to have any sort of objectivity in calling whether or not the drastic measure is in fact a reasonable alternative to suffering through their life.

I used to be unable to square it away myself, in fact. It wasn't until I became friends with a trans person and talked to them about this stuff that I started to understand, and I wasn't until I divested my own emotions and preferences from the whole thing that I really got behind the idea that what I see as drastic might be seen as a fully reasonable basic need to someone else.
That might be true, but just like you, everyone else needs to come to that understanding on their own. You certainly can't try to legislate that everyone should accept them. People have the freedom to be bigots or assholes, but I would give trans people the same advice you gave me above. Sure, its not that simple, my emotions are pretty fragile myself... But I would try to understand why they find it so strange.

See above for why the apparent extremity of the option might not seem so extreme to those who it actually directly impacts.

As for how common it is, the one number I can find says 33% of trans people undergo some kind of gender surgery, which is higher than I expected. I'm not sure how truly reliable it is, but if it really is 1/3 then it may not be so rare after all. Still a last resort though, as far as I understand it.
Huh.. Interesting.

Hormones are part of brain chemistry, and emotion is indeed affected by it. Whether or not it's dictated, meaning we have no control over it and are at the whims of the chemicals in our brains, is a completely separate discussion about free will and determinism, but that might just be me being a pedantic asshole.
We we have some sort of control over it. From chopping off the frontal lobe to taking anti-depressants. Isn't adding hormones to change brain chemistry the same?

Anyway, yeah, hormones are taken to get their body to match up to how they feel, both on a body and brain level. Men and women have rather different hormones running through their bodies on average, and they affect all sorts of stuff. Hormone therapy for trans people is aimed at making their hormone levels match up with the gender they identify as.
I guess I get that... I have the erm.. Opposite hormone from what I should have in much more abundance than I should, naturally. But I enjoy it actually... mostly...


Eh, to be blunt, you're simply wrong here. Interpretation is what determines how someone reacts to something, not intent.
My point is that just because someone thinks they "feel" hate from someone, doesn't actually make that person or their intentions hateful.

But even if it somehow did, I believe people have the right to be hateful. No matter how shitty it may be.

I think people saying "its hateful" to think a certain way or have a certain opinion is disingenuous to a fair conversation. I see it flung around a lot in an intellectually dishonest way. But.. Thasts just me.

If you intend to hold a door open for someone but you accidentally slam it into their face and they think the shocked look on your face is actually an angry one, they might interpret that event as you maliciously smashing their face with a door. It doesn't matter that your intent was good and you had no hate in your mind, if that person reads the events as a hateful thing then they're going to react to it as a hate-fueled action. This is simply how the human mind works. You can resist such urges, certainly, but if your quick read on something is a certain way then your instinctual/gut reaction will follow that interpretation before you can really stop yourself.

In the door example you can then explain yourself and clear it up and it'll all be fine. If a trans person sees someone on a talk show talking about how all trans people are weird, they could read that as hateful (likely being way too oversensitive, but again interpretation is what matters, not how rational it is) and there's no chance for rebuttal. That's what I mean when I say there can be some splash damage. Even if it's not directed at the person, even if there wasn't any actual hate intended, if someone sees it as hateful and has a personal negative reaction to it then it has the same impact as if they had heard something truly meant with hate.

It's easy enough to dismiss that with "well whatever, they're overreacting, that's their problem," but that doesn't change the fact that each such event might be another punch right to their self esteem. Enough of those might drive them into depression, and then further into attempting suicide. It's not something that you can really prevent, because some people might take even totally innocuous things as hateful and directed against them or a group they identify with, but just brushing it off because it's irrational would make you kind of foolish. You can try to police your own phrasing super hard to try to avoid this, or maybe you'll just say fuck it and say whatever you like and sucks to be whoever gets some negative feelings because of it (and I will admit that this is my approach in life), but ignoring the reality of the impact words and statements can have on people is dumb and just as irrational as this awkward phenomenon of human psychology.
This (for some reason) made me need to ask a question...

Would I be considered transgendered for being a crossdresser and being pretty erm... having traits of both sexes?
 
Alright, from the top, a one, two, three, four...

On Feminism's Views: Modern feminism is split into many camps, but for simplicity's sake we'll focus on the two biggest (ish) ones, which are intersectional and choice-based. Intersectional feminism tends to adopt the philosophy that all minority rights battles should be combined under a single flag, so transgender issues would normally gain their support. A transgender MTF (male-to-female) winning an award in a magazine would likely not bother the majority, because that's a win for transgenders, which by intersectional standards, is a win for feminism. Choice-based feminists wouldn't really have any opinion on the matter: It has nothing to do with individual women's rights, which is exclusively what they focus on. If they had any opinion at all, it'd probably be supportive, since the majority of feminists of any camp tend to lean more towards the left politically speaking.

The only ones that would decry this and call themselves feminists would be so crazy that they would even give pause to most of the vocal screeching tumblrite minority. The only equivalent that comes to mind is the way Christians cringe whenever the Westboro Baptist Church opens its big, stupid mouth: Both are so extreme, that they're in no way representative of the average or even fundamentalists among either group.

As for how a women's rights movement can then simultaneously advocate that genders do not exist and still thus function as a movement, that's a topic for another time, and if you're genuinely sexually confused, the best thing you can do for yourself is avoid this. It will only confuse you more. Solidify your identity first, find who you are, then you can start engaging in this if you should so choose to do so. For the sake of this thread, I won't state my own views on the subject here, and will instead focus on what transgenders are. :ferret:

Transgender tl;dr: One of my closest friends for a long time was deeply LGBT involved and was bullied for being a lesbian, so, even as a dumb teenager, I did a lot of research to better understand how things are concerning genders and the sexes. Heck, I even wrote a roleplaying guide about some of the biological differences between males and females. Here's the tl;dr as to what transgenders are.

First, ignore all the other terminology that's being shoved down your throat, like two-spirit peoples. You can learn that yourself later if you really want to. Just focus on these two terms for now: MTF, and FTM. Otherwise known as male-to-female, and female-to-male. The former is a person born biologically male but who is mentally female, and the latter is a person born biologically female but who is mentally male. MTF = Biologically Male, Mentally Female. FTM = Biologically Female, Mentally Male. Got it? Good. Now for the other part you need to know.

There's post-op, and pre-op. The former is the term one has if they've undergone sexual reassignment therapy, which usually involves surgical procedures and taking chemical shots to artificially boost sex hormones to help you further reach for your desired sex. The latter is the term one has if they've not undergone sexual reassignment therapy, whether or not they seek to do so. Again, I'm over-simplifying this somewhat, but I'm just making sure that @Kakumei will have a basic grasp of the subject matter so that he (or she?) can better understand more intricate (and ultimately accurate) descriptions in the future.

Jenny is a post-op, MTF. She has gone as far as she can to obtain the desired sex she wishes with the current limitations of medical technology as a whole. By all stretches of the imagination, she is a woman, save in certain, biological functions that cannot as of yet be obtained through surgical procedures. However, here's where we get to the complicated part. The part that Republicans constantly fumble because they share about half a dozen brain cells all dedicated to ESPN and "dem damn dur-tee illegulz r stealin' r jurbs Lester, hyuck hyuck."

Gender is not Sex, and Sex is not Gender, but Sex and Gender both exist.

Sex: The biological parts you were born with/possess. If you're a biological male, you have a dick. If you're a biological female, you have a vagina, breasts, and the capacity to give birth to however many babbies you so wish before mother nature hits you with metapause. (This is, of course, assuming everything is kosher and it all works properly. Just because a woman or a man might be born sterile, doesn't mean they aren't a woman or a man. It's only the parts that define your biological sex, nothing more, nothing less.)

Gender: The massively complicated psychological and societal definitions. It's better defined as an umbrella term, really. Masculinity and femininity fall under this, as does your own perceptions.

Ergo why it's called transgender. Your physical sex is irrelevant, it's what you personally feel yourself to be. This is why Jenner can be a woman and yet have been born male: Her physical sex is not in question when defining her gender, which she ultimately gets to be the one who defines it. For herself. Ergo why it's perfectly fine for the magazine to call her what she has defined herself to be, based on how she feels about herself.

Summary: Absolutely regardless of everything else, transgenders are simply persons who identify with a gender which does not reflect the sex they were born with. (Ergo why CIS is also a term: It just means you're comfortable with and identify as the sex you were born with. I'm a male who was born a male, ergo I'm a CIS gendered scum male.) Their physical sex is irrelevant to how they mentally identify themselves, which is all that's important in attempting to understand them and accept them. Caitlyn Jenner is a transgendered MTF woman who has done everything in her power to try and be as physically close to being a woman as is possible. Regardless of whether she did or didn't would have no impact on how she mentally perceives herself. Technological limitations on our parts should not strictly define what mother nature can or cannot allow, and what a person can or cannot be.

Also, I refuse to get into the politics of it. Because jesus fuck, the politics surrounding transgenders are a horrifying nightmare which I do not envy in the slightest. It should also be irrelevant to understanding and accepting them, because at the end of the day, there are tens of thousands of transgendered people living every day lives. Every day lives that include going to work, paying taxes, spending time with family and friends, and generally adding to society in each their own, individual way. It's not a mental disorder if they're perfectly happy with it and it doesn't cause them any sort of physical harm, but Jorick went over that perfectly fine, so I don't need to echo what he's already said.

Basically, if someone tries to tell you that transgenders are just a bunch of mental disorders, think carefully on that. By "carefully", I mean realize there are tens of thousands of exceptions, and that theory holds about as much water as the Nevada desert. Now, there are parts of the LGBT political canon that could be argued with to some degree, but, again, we're avoiding that, strictly to define what transgenders are.

Transgenders are normal goddamn people who happen to be born with a sex they don't identify with.

The end. End of story. End of debate. People who try to throw all transgenders under the mental disorder camp and who attempt to bar and take away their rights as people are fucking horrendous and should rightfully be compared to Nazis going after the Jews. There are few people that honest to god enrage me, but these people manage to do it. If you want to see me actually lose my fucking shit instead of maintaining a calm, diplomatic demanour like I normally do, just put me in a room with someone who proclaims that transgendered people are somehow mentally handicapped or inferior to the glorious CIS master race. If I manage to last more than an hour without beating them to a bloody pulp, it will only be because Jesus Christ himself stepped down to do it for me while screaming "LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR, MOTHERFUCKER!"


@Grumpy Shitposting Tax.

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Would I be considered transgendered for being a crossdresser and being pretty erm... having traits of both sexes?
No, not unless your gender identity is different from your biological sex, which, as stated, is really the only defining trait of being transgender.

Crossdressing (by itself) is just dressing as the opposite gender -- nothing more, nothing less. If you simply dress as the opposite gender, but do not identify as it, and instead still identify with your biological sex, then you aren't trans. That's not to say that crossdressing is inherently offensive to trans people (as, yes, I have heard people say that...), but, to say that it's the same thing as being trans? Yeah, that isn't all too accurate...

As for having "traits of both sexes", I guess that depends... Are you trying to say that you're intersex...? If so, I don't know enough on the subject to say for sure.

All I know is, being trans or not simply depends on whether or not your gender and biological sex match. If they don't, that's trans. If they do, that's cis. Pretty cut-and-dry, I think.
 
That actually really helped me understand a lot. I still am not really down with the surgery stuff involved, I maintain that position, but I know more now that I did, thanks to everyone who took time to try to get me to see their view.
 
That actually really helped me understand a lot. I still am not really down with the surgery stuff involved, I maintain that position, but I know more now that I did, thanks to everyone who took time to try to get me to see their view.
Being honest I'm in the "I don't know how to feel about it" camp, so that's fair. I like to verify my beliefs on scientific fact, but the science is still out on gender reassignment therapy. Still, I don't stop people from seeking it out for themselves: Individual liberties and all that jazz.

Just make sure you avoid the derpbates about whether you can be born with the wrong gender or whether gender is just a social construct. At least until you concretely know who you are. That debate will just send you completely off the fucking wall with confusion. Just... Just trust me. Avoid it as best you can until you know who you are. :ferret:
 
I don't even know what this is.. XD

All I know is, being trans or not simply depends on whether or not your gender and biological sex match. If they don't, that's trans. If they do, that's cis. Pretty cut-and-dry, I think.
In Japan its just.. Boy and Girl. The way you guys have been describing gender is not really a thing there... So its not like I have a lot of experience with it.

I'm a male, who according to doctors, has a very high level of estrogen. When I cross dress, I am typically considered a otokonoko which translates literally to "male daughter", but also is used as slang to mean like er... A trap. Anyway, because of that high estrogen, I had to 'bind' my chest a stuff when I was younger. Which was embarrassing.

But the concept of "being" something based on how I feel is just lost on me, probably because of that culture. You are pretty much identified by biological sex and your sexuality.. Which is also somewhat lost on Japanese.

Individual liberties and all that jazz.
I very much agree with this. But I feel like people cloud some of the facts around the issue, or avoid trying to find them out, in order to appease the emotional appeal of the argument.

Avoid it as best you can until you know who you are.
ITS A TRAP.

Pretty much, is sort of how I feel.
 
I don't even know what this is.. XD
Someone who is intersex is a person who biologically has indeterminable sex organs. Most often, sex at birth is defined by the number and type of sex chromosomes, the type of sexual organs present, sex hormones, internal reproductive anatomy, and external genitalia. If any of those conditions does not conform with the others (ex: Male sex organs, female sex chromosomes), that person is intersex.

It's extraordinarily rare, but it happens.

Basically, you can define it as someone that is born with atypical sexual characteristics. Which, given how evolution works, is completely within the realm of not only acceptable reality, but expected reality.

tl;dr: Dem random changes creating genetic variation within a species... Yo.

EDIT

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Great. So what does that make a ridiculously feminine guy with super high levels of estrogen?

Because I clearly am not intersex.
 
Great. So what does that make a ridiculously feminine guy with super high levels of estrogen?

Because I clearly am not intersex.
If you have normal sexual organs for a male, then you're biologically a male. How much estrogen or testosterone you have is fairly irrelevant save in how masculine or feminine your physical characteristics will be, especially during puberty.

How you mentally see yourself entirely decides what gender you possess. If you feel you're a woman, then you're transgendered. If you feel comfortable being a male, then you're cis-gendered. If you're uncertain, that's okay too.

Also keep in mind that how masculine or feminine you are has no bearing on what gender you see yourself as or what gender you possess. If you're an extraordinarily effeminate (feminine) male who feels comfortable being a male, then you're a male who happens to not conform to masculine culture, which should (in an idealistic world) be fine. If you're an extraordinarily effeminate male who feels sexually confused and identifies more as a woman than as a man, then at some level, you're probably transgendered. Regardless, don't rush into discovering who you are. Take your time, and figure it out step by step. Try to figure out how you feel, and why you feel that way, on each and every topic of personal interest you can find.

Also, understand that it's very rare for a male to be completely masculine or for a female to be completely feminine. It's less a binary "1 or 0" switch, and more like a gradient scale. Some men are more masculine than other men, some women are more feminine than other women. It's why the LGBT flag is a rainbow, it represents how we're all special butterflies inside. Even if we feel and look completely normal, there's usually something that sets you apart. If there isn't, that's okay too. :ferret:
 
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