Christians should apologize to gays (according to the Pope)

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I'm not 100% sure. There's a difference between saying they as an individual don't associate with them and then doubting that the other person has faith.
There's an absurd amount of interpretations out there. Even if you take broad strokes like Protestant or Catholic. But none of that is important. The important thing isn't why people don't do X, it is that they don't do X. It is not reasons that define a person. It is their actions. So regardless of whether I think discrimination based on sexuality is illogical, or a Christian thinks it's not a Christian thing to do, we are all distancing our selves from the same sentiment.
 
As a Christian myself, I'm very happy about this. I was always hoping that the whole "being gay is a sin" thing would fade away over time, much like how interracial marriage was once considered sinful, and now that just seems ridiculous to look back on. :P

Anyway, I've always liked Pope Francis. I really like the direction he's taking things in.
By the very same "church" the Pope leads. Even though the Bible says nothing "bad" about it, like it does about homosexuality.
 
To be honest, even as an atheist and religion critic (yes, I criticise Islam too, before the idiots inevitably come out of the woodwork), I can't find any reason to not hold respect for Francis. While some Catholics may not agree with the man's policy re: Church dealings and his opinions, he is arguably the most forward-thinking Pope the Catholic Church has had since it became the Catholic Church. He's revolutionising the way the Church operates and changing a lot of its more... ultra-conservative philosophical leanings and opinions.

While I can't find myself agreeing with the way he put this particular decision into words, the core of his message here is great. LGBTQ(A) people are people, and according to the Bible are all not equal under the eyes of God? If so, why were some Christians using antiquated texts (see Grothnor's post for more on that as I'm not going into detail here) to justify judging others harshly (which is also a sin according to the Bible, last I read; judge not lest ye be judged or something like that) regarding sexuality. While I don't think all Christians should be apologising--after all, there are a lot of very progressive Christians out there, and it can be argued that Jesus Christ himself was a liberal and force for social justice even if you don't subscribe to traditional Bible stories--what Francis has said definitely further delegitimises organisations like the Westboro "Baptist Church".

Now, if only the Russian Orthodox Church would move into the 21st century...
 
Now, if only the Russian Orthodox Church would move into the 21st century...


Well, Russia would have to move in, first. But before that, we'd have to define exactly what you mean by "the 21st century". Far as I'm aware, human beings are still human beings. And the 21st century is no different than the first. And, to be more specific to the topic, no one needs to apologize to anyone. Saying "Christians" should apologize to gays is a generalization, because an apology is an individual thing. Meaning not all Christians have done anything to gays they need to apologize for. Westboro is not Christianity. Remember, not all white people are members of the KKK.

The greatest Commandment we've been given: "Love one another." Love doesn't require an apology. And we are no longer slaves to sin... we forgive, as we were forgiven. Unfortunately, not everyone follows these beliefs, Christian's included. But, if we intend to point fingers, they should only be pointed at those who actually need to ask for forgiveness. No longer slaves, but sin is still in the world. And in us.
 
You know, I’ve come to realize, after re-reading all of this, that some of you seem to have missed a little something.

The Pope is a Religious >>leader<<. He is (nearly) at the top of the pyramid when it comes to Catholicism Christianity. As most would know, leaders often do have to speak up and ‘take the blame’ for whatever actions the followers of his group do. He’s also saying another message which has been brought up; “Love each other.” It may not be explicit, but he is someone who inspires many within the religion and the fact that he brings this up means he working to better the group he leads.


It may be minor, it may not change as much as one would think, but it is a step forward.
 
The Pope is a Religious >>leader<<. He is (nearly) at the top of the pyramid when it comes to Catholicism Christianity.


No you had it right the first time. It is Catholicism, not Christianity as a whole. Many Protestant branches actually have several key doctrinal problems with Catholicism. (Though that's a topic for another thread.)

I think what many of us are saying is that while the Pope has a lot of good points, we don't appreciate being lumped into the negative side of his congregation (or any we might belong to) because there are those out there that really do truly need to make that apology, and they've tainted something that should be founded on love.

He can apologize from his pulpit all he wants for him self, he can say his congregation needs to apologies for historical deeds, he can suggest people seek forgiveness for their own wrong actions, all of which he did do. But what's happening here that people are objecting to, is people taking and twisting the Pope's words, because of his position, to mean that all of Christianity as a whole is to blame for this behavior. Not only is that not true, but I don't think that's what he meant at all.

What I understand him to be saying, is that we are flawed human beings that make mistakes and we do need to seek forgiveness for that, but being human does not give us an excuse to willingly and intentionally take a judgmental and hateful path towards our fellow humans because they chose a different path from ours in some way shape or form. And that I think is a very good point.

And I'll take a good point from anyone, regardless of which church they are actually leading.
 
My position is similar but different than what @- Falcon - is saying.

Having gone through the Bible (or at least a fair portion of it) myself I can't find anything to suggest that any Christian branch inherently finds Homosexuality to be ok. The Holy texts just simply don't support it (though you can make the argument that it's only Gay men, not Women that are sinners due to wording technicalities).

However, there is a big difference in what the Religion itself supports and that followers of said religion supports. If that wasn't the case we'd have the majority of western society advocating for using the death penalty for those who work on Sunday. But since the vast majority of religious people aren't that literal with their holy text (assuming they're the minority who actually reads said holy text) it's not fair to point at what the Bible says and accuse all people under said religion to support the idea. You've got to look at how people actually behave, and what message's they spread. And what you can generally find is that your everyday christian supports the LGBT community, and it's really just the Bible Belt people who seem to be bashing on the community still. And considering that, for the Pope to suddenly say that all Christians owe an apology greatly generalises them, and makes rather negative assumptions about how Christians as a whole think and operate.
 
There are still Christians who forget we no longer live under Old Testament law, but under Grace.
 
There are still Christians who forget we no longer live under Old Testament law, but under Grace.

But doesn't Paul write against homosexuality, and it's not just the Old Testament against it?

I guess that could be argued that Paul was a man, and therefore had the errors of man, and was speaking as a man for God, but still.
 
But doesn't Paul write against homosexuality, and it's not just the Old Testament against it?

I guess that could be argued that Paul was a man, and therefore had the errors of man, and was speaking as a man for God, but still.

Sin is still sin, even though we live under Grace. Because we are all sinners. The only difference, those who have accepted God's Grace, and those who have rejected it. If you are under God's Grace, you are forgiven. Your sins have been paid for. But we still need to avoid sin, and to ask for Forgiveness when we do what we shouldn't.
 
Sin is still sin, even though we live under Grace. Because we are all sinners. The only difference, those who have accepted God's Grace, and those who have rejected it. If you are under God's Grace, you are forgiven. Your sins have been paid for. But we still need to avoid sin, and to ask for Forgiveness when we do what we shouldn't.
By that logic. Gay people should avoid being gay. This is the slippery slope of religious dogmas. But that is a conversation for another thread.
 
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By that logic. Gay people should avoid being gay. This is the slippery slope of religious dogmas. But that is a conversation for another thread.


Indeed it is.
 
To clarify my earlier post, I'm not trying to suggest that the Pope shouldn't of spoken up for LGBT. That is rather important considering how the Bible Belt communities tend to operate, and I appreciate that he's willing to call out his own rather than go on the defensive and deny any malice from Christians.

I'd just prefer it if he'd have called out said Bible Belt specifically, and not word as a general thing that applies to all Christians.
 
Pope Francis says Christians should apologize to gay people - CNN.com

So this happened fairly recently, what are your thoughts?

I've seen a lot of people who find this upsetting, and, while it's not surprising, it still saddens me to see so many people holding steadfast to their bigoted beliefs. This does give me some hope, however, that such beliefs will eventually fade away over time.
I might point out, that since it's a Christian belief that marriage is solely between a man and a woman, stating that such a belief is bigoted is inherently bigoted itself
 
I might point out, that since it's a Christian belief that marriage is solely between a man and a woman, stating that such a belief is bigoted is inherently bigoted itself
When did marriage come up?

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Sounds like the Pope is yearning for some brimstone for breakfast.

And what good an apology when broiling in the fires of hell?

/s
 
I might point out, that since it's a Christian belief that marriage is solely between a man and a woman, stating that such a belief is bigoted is inherently bigoted itself
How is pointing out obvious bigotry inherently bigoted?

I don't care what kind of belief it is, bigotry is still bigotry no matter how you look at it.
 
I might point out, that since it's a Christian belief that marriage is solely between a man and a woman, stating that such a belief is bigoted is inherently bigoted itself
When you have so many different cultures and beliefs in the same area some are going to naturally clash with one another. So really in a sense it's impossible for a group not to be 'bigoted' by that logic.
That's the whole reason 1st World Countries (mainly) operate on the system of "You are free to practice your beliefs, as long as it doesn't violate another persons rights". And in a situation like this, Christianity being against LGBT is a belief violating another persons rights, hence it's being called out.
 
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When you have so many different cultures and beliefs in the same area some are going to naturally clash with one another. So really in a sense it's impossible for a group not to be 'bigoted' by that logic.
That's the whole reason 1st World Countries (mainly) operate on the system of "You are free to practice your beliefs, as long as it doesn't violate another persons rights". And in a situation like this, Christianity being against LGBT is a belief violating another persons rights, hence it's being called out.
Eh, well technically, as a belief, it's not really violating anyone's rights per se. A belief doesn't affect anyone except the person who holds it, the problem lies in when they decide to act on that belief; it's those actions that are violating human rights, and not the belief itself.
 
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