Children and Manners

[Hope]

Oh don't even get me started on this. I think one of my BIGGEST pet peeves are little brat kids with no manners, but worse thier parents who act like it's okay! For instance, recently I was visiting a friend. Her 3 year old decided that a good thing to do in response to my "hello" would be to spit in my face. His mother saw it and said "don't do that." In the most gentle voice she could muster. Let me tell you... if that were my kid I'd have taken every toy out of the room and put him on time out in there for a long, long time.

Now I have lots of other stories, but I don't want to get myself worked up. All I can say is...

Please, for the love of all that in sacred in this world, TEACH YOUR KIDS MANNERS AND DISCIPLINE THEM WHEN NEEDED.

That is all.

But I do agree with Gwazi that some manners or phrases we are taught to be polite are outdated and redundant. However, your kid spits in somebody's face BETTAH be disciplined.

 

[Rainjay]

Yeah, parents should teach their kids manners. Here's how I see it; in today's world, if you're in a first world country, and you have a child, it is 100% your responsibility. If you get pregnant and didn't 'mean' to, it was an accident, there are things for that. There is birth control. And if you don't believe in it, then it's your responsibility to manage your body and what happens to it. I suppose abuse and rape victims are the exceptions to this, but for the most part; if you have a child, it is your responsibility to raise them to be a respectable human being and you have to care for them properly. Which includes manners and all that.

Truth be told as a child I was mostly just left be, but even then I was surrounded by people with mostly nice manners. Sometimes I get kind of rude and I'm somewhat shy/anxious around people, but I was still taught to respond when someone initiates conversation, be polite to people older than me, people I don't know.

It's kind of annoying to see kids just running around with their mouths flying out obscenities and insults and stuff. Not that I see little kids so often anymore, but it's easier to teach a small child to be polite than it is to reform a teenager or, an adult.

 

[Yellow]

My friend's daughter needed someone to care for her child for 5 hours. I absolutely fell in love with her because of her manners. I went to th market with her and my gf and she was so polite. I had worn a backpack cause we needed to restock my fridge for at the very least two, three days. Me and lovedove(My partner.) We're talking in the store and it felt like lovedove and me had an actual family. So we bought her lunchable and when we got home I started cooking for me and my mate. The usual pasta dish. The only thing I am good at other then bar work.

So on our trip home I knelt down and attempted to carry her on my back. Due to very minor pakenson's I have a very light shaking movement that goes across my body. She, surprising wanted off my back and asked "(Insert name) are you okay, your shaking really badly."I just told her I had light shaking in my body so I had taken all three of our jackets and backpack and carried them home. She played with legos for a bit then she started making those pizza lunchables and started handing them out. "Will you pwease have one?" I just smiled and took it and ate it. Then said "You should go start class at a ritzy school." When she was about to leave she stopped and gave me a beaded necklice and said, "This is for you so you never forget me." I knelt down to look her in the eyes and said.."I will NEVER forget you."

 

[Hope]

So this thread got me to asking myself. What is and what isn't considered outdated or redundant? And what should remain reinforced?

• How about calling elders "Sir" or "Ma'am"?
• Saying "please" and "thank you."
• Holding doors open for ladies? How about for anyone?
• Shaking hands upon meeting someone new? (I still do this but notice many, many people don't anymore or are uncomfortable when I offer my hand)
• Not cursing in front of ladies?
• Not eating before everyone has received their food, or till everyone has filled thier plate?
• Helping elderly across the street?
• How about giving up your seat for a lady? What if they were pregnant? Older?

These questions in no way reflect my thoughts on them. Just threw out some old behaviors that used to be considered polite that now may be considered sexist to some. What are your thoughts?

 

[Yellow]

I've done tons of stuff like that,the good ones.. You also forgot the new fade called spreading or the spread. Honestly they annoy me the most as well as baggage sitters. Like you pay for a seatt and the dood won't remove his carry on luggage from your seat...Not just kids, thinking it's their human rolemodels.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Note all of these are under my personal opinion.
I'm not taking the stance of "These are right and wrong and that is the way it is" or anything like that.

• How about calling elders "Sir" or "Ma'am"?

I'd say depends on the environment.

If it's family related? Drop it, family should be the one place you can kick back and relax the most.
Not be most on guard about protocol and procedure.

If it's work related though?
I'd say it depends on the professionalism of the place, and the relationship and atmosphere between the workers.

• Saying "please" and "thank you."

I'd say it's still valid.
But could use less frequency.
Today we're hitting a point that it's used so often that it's diluted, it holds no real meaning cause we hear it all the time.

If we reserved for when it was more important/vital it could regain some meaning and significance, rather than simply be something to prolong a sentence.

• Holding doors open for ladies? How about for anyone?

Scrap the ladies part, just do it for people period.
That being said don't be really awkward and hold it for someone a fair bit away.

But at least do it for those who might get the door shut in their face otherwise, and/or have a decent amount they're carrying.
That's just common courtesy, and if everyone kept it up we'd be getting to places a lot quicker overall when otherwise encumbered.

• Shaking hands upon meeting someone new? (I still do this but notice many, many people don't anymore or are uncomfortable when I offer my hand)

Eh...

It's harmless, I see no harm in it.
But at the same time there's other people's comfort levels to consider and how not everyone may like it.
And there's no way to really tell before hand how they'd react.

So I would honestly say still feel free to offer it, but don't make it an obligation to respond.
So if they're not comfortable don't treat it like a sign of disrespect or anything either.

And while we're talking about handshakes...
I'd drop the whole "Make it hard and firm" competition sort of deal.
I've always found that makes more handshakes more of a competition of dominance than a sign of respect, the total opposite of manners.

• Not cursing in front of ladies?

Fuck that. :P

No disrespect to ladies meant.
I just find cursing is just part of the human language, it's a way we make sounds and express ourselves.
The idea that we treat certain word's as bad to begin with is ridiculous in itself.

I feel Stephen Fry put's it best in my opinion.

Especially considering that one sex is expected to be treated differently in this regard.
When in all honesty all that's saying is "Because you were born with a Vagina instead of a Penis (Something no one has control over) I'm going to treat you differently".
Which in my personal opinion is simply flat out sexist and helps nobody.

This all being said though, I do recognize society as a whole strongly disagree's with me on this one.
And the expectation to not swear (especially near women) is still a common practice in today's society.

• Not eating before everyone has received their food, or till everyone has filled thier plate?

I find this one is still common practice, but only in regards to holidays.
If it's just your everyday dinner no one really seems to care that I've noticed...
Unless if you're in one of those strongly religious households that is, but that's more about praying before you eat then it is about eating before someone else.

But in my personal opinion? It's rather pointless.
It's food, your consuming it so you're able to keep functioning.
There's no reason to force yourself to be hungry for longer.
If the concern is interacting with others you can just sit after your done and continue talking, nothing's stopping you from staying.

• Helping elderly across the street?

Not on default I'd say.
Most people tend to ignore the elderly overall today (which I find rather despicable to be honest).
But at the same time we need to respect they're individuals and may want to do things themselves, and that maybe their only source of confidence left is doing things independently.

So as a rule? I'd suggest only offer your help if they seen in danger without it or outright ask for it.
And if they refuse the offer don't pressure them on it.

• How about giving up your seat for a lady? What if they were pregnant? Older?

Once again, remove the lady part.
Men and women are equal in society, there's no reason to be treating one differently than the other.

I would however support that for say the elderly, pregnant people or those with a physical impairment if they seem in need of it.
However, if say you're on the bus and you're sitting in the handicapped seats? Just get out of there by default.
It's fine to sit there if there's not enough of such people on board, but if they do get on then you're in seats basically reserved/meant for them so at that point it's only common courtesy to move to another seat.
A person shouldn't have to ask for a seat that is legally there's to begin with.

Note: This is basically because of the medical issues that they will have.
If this was a class thing such as "Rich kids first" or "White people first" then I'd be demanding we ignore it completely.
But since it's medical based, which is a serious issue I'm fine with reserved seating because it makes sense as to why that would be a thing.

 

[Kagayours]

Holding doors open for ladies? How about for anyone?

So I read this and I was just gonna reply with "hold the door open for anyone. Why wouldn't you?" because I'll pretty much always hold the door open for someone regardless of who's behind me.

But then to add to that;

Not cursing in front of ladies?

This almost seems to imply that ladies aren't allowed to curse in the first place, and yet that men are, so long as it's not in front of a lady.

As the proud owner of a vagina, I'm here to say -- the fuck is up with that? Are women really still considered such delicate flowers in society?

I mean, I don't consider myself a faminazi. In fact it often times kind of bothers me when people take the whole women's rights things just a bit too far to the point where it almost reaches misandry territory. I also acknowledge that men and women are different (both physically and mentally), so it doesn't make sense to think of them as completely equal in every way. For example, women typically have less physical strength than men, especially where it concerns upper-body strength. That's not to say there can't be exceptions, but, in general, that's how our bodies are built. So where it comes down to a guy wanting to help a girl out with some sort of physical task (like, I dunno, carrying a whole bunch of stuff), then yeah, I would consider that a polite thing to do. I think that's an ok situation in which men and women don't need to be thought of as 100% equal all the time.

However,

Fucking cursing? Really? Come on. Men and women are different, yes, but I think we can handle some fucking swearing.

And honestly if we're talking about the politeness of swearing in general then it definitely depends on context and how comfortable the people around you are with it. I don't think gender really plays a part in that, though.

 

[Dervish]

So I read this and I was just gonna reply with "hold the door open for anyone. Why wouldn't you?" because I'll pretty much always hold the door open for someone regardless of who's behind me.

But then to add to that;



This almost seems to imply that ladies aren't allowed to curse in the first place, and yet that men are, so long as it's not in front of a lady.

As the proud owner of a vagina, I'm here to say -- the fuck is up with that? Are women really still considered such delicate flowers in society?

I mean, I don't consider myself a faminazi. In fact it often times kind of bothers me when people take the whole women's rights things just a bit too far to the point where it almost reaches misandry territory. I also acknowledge that men and women are different (both physically and mentally), so it doesn't make sense to think of them as completely equal in every way. For example, women typically have less physical strength than men, especially where it concerns upper-body strength. That's not to say there can't be exceptions, but, in general, that's how our bodies are built. So where it comes down to a guy wanting to help a girl out with some sort of physical task (like, I dunno, carrying a whole bunch of stuff), then yeah, I would consider that a polite thing to do. I think that's an ok situation in which men and women don't need to be thought of as 100% equal all the time.

However,

Fucking cursing? Really? Come on. Men and women are different, yes, but I think we can handle some fucking swearing.

And honestly if we're talking about the politeness of swearing in general then it definitely depends on context and how comfortable the people around you are with it. I don't think gender really plays a part in that, though.

I, for one, proudly support your vagina's right to vulgarity.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

I also acknowledge that men and women are different (both physically and mentally), so it doesn't make sense to think of them as completely equal in every way. For example, women typically have less physical strength than men, especially where it concerns upper-body strength.

This reminds me to clarify, when I said "Men and women are equal in society, there's no reason to be treating one differently than the other" I was largely referring to legal rights and such.
I do recognize that biologically there are physical and mental differences (even though that gap is shrinking with each generation).

But I would still vouch for a "Treat them by the individual" approach rather than making assumptions on the sex.

Example: Man and women carrying bags, don't go by default "I'm the man so I'll carry". Look at the individuals physical strengths and ability to carry things, and then let the one whose more capable of lifting stuff handle more of the lifting. Which on average will still lead to more men carrying it than women because science, but it's happening on an individual basis rather than assumptions made based on one's sex.

 

[Zen]

>_>

<_<

*steals allllll of Gwazi's gifs*

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

>_>

<_<

*steals allllll of Gwazi's gifs*

You wait until I switch from a 200+ sig to a 20 gif sig to do so? :P

 

[Zen]

You wait until I switch from a 200+ sig to a 20 gif sig to do so? :P

Mwahahaha.

Yes.

 

[Gwazi Magnum]

Mwahahaha.

Yes.

A bit slow there mate. :P

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

Helping elderly across the street?

That's often seen as insulting, at least where I live.

 

[Brovo]

What are your thoughts?

Society changes and evolves over time, and the definition of respect varies based on the location in which you live. For example: In Japan, it's considered a social faux pas to wear shoes indoors. You always bow your head to the elderly, and those who are superior to you in the social ladder (save where personal relationships may override this rule). Complaining in public is considered a social faux pas, which is often covered by a friend with the words "gomen nasai", or otherwise translated "it can't be helped".

It used to be considered scandalous for a woman to show bare legs. Now, women walk around in mini-skirts and jean shorts. Things change, we grow, and whether that's for better or for worse is for you to decide to regress or progress at will.

How about calling elders "Sir" or "Ma'am"?

Anyone in a position of authority deserves this. Whether you consider the elderly to be positions of authority or not is up to your individual set of values. I always do it for war veterans, but otherwise the elderly are just people to me, like any other.

Saying "please" and "thank you."

Common courtesy. I use it, but I don't force others to use it. Your words reflect the quality of your character, and if you want to reflect being a self-absorbed douche, that's on you.

Holding doors open for ladies? How about for anyone?

I will for people who have stuff in their arms, or who appear physically handicapped. Women are capable of opening doors unassisted last I checked... Unless this changed while I wasn't looking.

Shaking hands upon meeting someone new? (I still do this but notice many, many people don't anymore or are uncomfortable when I offer my hand)

Different cultures do greetings and expressions differently. ex: In France, if you smile at someone while on the subway or public transit, that's considered flirtatious.

Not cursing in front of ladies?

Should I ensure that my lady is wearing the finest of leather corsets while I'm at it?

Not eating before everyone has received their food, or till everyone has filled thier plate?

Antiquated dinner ritual. I generally measure the company I'm with to figure out whether or not I should bother with this.

Helping elderly across the street?

Nowhere have I ever seen a more bizarre social ritual than this one. If they're too old to cross the street, they're too old to be going places without assistance. If they can cross the street without your help, all you're doing is implying they're incapable. It's well intentioned but meaningless. I can do nicer things for old people, like help them with heavy objects, or smack politicians when they talk about cutting CPP.

How about giving up your seat for a lady? What if they were pregnant? Older?

A lady? No. She's got a perfectly functional pair of legs, if she's gonna get snippy with me about chivalry, I'll retort that men work an average of 7% longer work days so she can fuck off. If it's someone who's pregnant, physically handicapped, or old, sure. I've got the perfectly functioning pair of legs, they don't. Therefore it's logical and compassionate for them to get the seat while I stand.

 

[Jorick]

Eh, I don't really care about the particular things that are or are not done as part of manners. Specific rules like "always ask how someone is doing when greeting them" or "always hold doors open" are goofy. I prefer a single, simple rule:

Don't be an asshole.

That's it. That's the entire rule. Another very common phrasing of this rule is "treat others as you would want to be treated," meaning don't treat others like crap. My version does not mean you have to treat people super nicely and respectfully, by the way, just not poorly. Neutrality is okay. Kindness is not mandatory. Forcing politeness is just silly. I think it's better to teach the theory of kindness rather than the practice. Get kids to understand why they should be nice to people and everything else will fall into place. Set some rules for young kids that can't quite get it, sure, but once they get to... I dunno, whatever age when kids can start being rational, give them the basis for politeness rather than a rule book.

Could be that this is idealistic nonsense and kids just don't work this way, but it sounds like the ideal setup to me. It seems better to give the kids the tools to understand what is nice or not than to try to lay down specific rules.

 

[Freamon]

I say please, thanks/cheers (maybe a little too often) and it's cool/s'all good (you're welcome). I don't say sir or ma'am, simply because I wasn't raised to. I hold doors open for people since most everyone does in my town regardless of age/gender. I give my seat up on buses to the elderly or to children since I don't want to see either of them go flying. I've never directly helped an elderly person cross the street, although I do tend to wait to press the traffic lights if I see someone else coming to cross the road and if it's someone who can't walk too great I'll deliberately cross slowly or pretend to be distracted with my music player for a second or two before I start walking so they don't have to be in the middle of the road alone wondering if the lights are about to change. Only places I'll watch my language are in certain work/school environments. I wasn't allowed to swear as a child but my parents swore constantly so that bullshit didn't stick. Shaking hands? Only if it's work related or maybe one of my dads old mates.

 

[Hope]

Again, reinstating what I said previously, I was not stating how I felt about the issues I mentioned above. I was merely pointing out what used to be considered the norm as far as manners are Concerned. Not that they should still be practiced or what not.

Therefore, I suppose I can share my opinions on the matter.

• How about calling elders "Sir" or "Ma'am"?

As many others have already expressed I too believe that it depends on the social environment. In a work situation I do call my bosses sir or ma'am depending on the work environment. When I worked corporately I used it when speaking to the CEO. Duh. Do I get offended when some young teenage tart calls me ma'am? No, I don't. I'd rather the over politeness when it was not needed over some entitled little shit that is out right rude.

• Saying "please" and "thank you."

I always, always, always say please and thank you. This is something that I believe is not outdated in the slightest. Even if the person I'm saying it do doesn't listen or appreciate it I still do it. it's common courtesy. My opinion.

• Holding doors open for ladies? How about for anyone?

I hold doors open for anyone. If there is a person right behind me ad I'm opening the door I will smile and hold it open for them. Why? Well why not? It puts a smile.on thier face and usually brightens thier day a bit with the general surprise of the gesture. I also hold it open for those with thier arms full, have a stroller they're pushing, etc..

• Shaking hands upon meeting someone new? (I still do this but notice many, many people don't anymore or are uncomfortable when I offer my hand)

I don't know why I like shaking hand so much I just do. I find it tells me a lot about a person. It tells me how confident they are, how outgoing, etc..

• Not cursing in front of ladies?

Fuck it. I cuss more than most men I know. I have a horrible potty mouth. However, I am respectful. If I can tell my cursing is offending someone (of any gender) I will cease. Because THAT is the polite thing to do. And I think anyone else who has the mentality of "Well too bad. If they don't like the words coming out of my mouth they can just leave" are unclassy, rude, and need a reality check.

• Not eating before everyone has received their food, or till everyone has filled thier plate?

Personally, in my household we eat whenever our plates are filled. We don't wait. When I was a kid we waited, but it was for prayers.

• Helping elderly across the street?

I think it's cool when I see someone helping an elderly across the street. It's not that they can't do it themselves or anything. However, sometimes they take a long time to be sure of thier footing and what not. Having a little help can be nice. Not for ALL of them mind you. This.im.referring to are those that ask for it, or clearly need some assistance.

• How about giving up your seat for a lady? What if they were pregnant? Older?

I will always give up my seat for someone who is pregnant or elderly. Always. Even if they aren't "elderly" I've given up my seat to someone who just looked exhausted. It's a nice thing to do and doesn't rely on age parameters or any other.

 

[ᴛᴏᴄᴋᴀ]

Don't be an asshole.

Wait? You telling people to not be assholes? I think hell just froze over. That explains why I had frost on my windshield yesterday!

 

[Kagayours]

You wait until I switch from a 200+ sig to a 20 gif sig to do so? :P

To be fair, it's a lot easier to get all the gifs you want that way.

Also on that note, I can't believe you actually cut your sig down to a particular set like that. o.o For a while I just thought it was some weird coincidence that I kept getting the Master over and over.