Another discussion by Phoenix's Wrath

Phoenix's Wrath · Dec 7, 2012

Yes yes I know 'Shame on you Wrath for making another pointless and boring discussion to plague readers of Iwaku!' Truly I hang my head in shame. But you know the old saying, better to ask forgiveness then permission.

Which reminds me why I had created such a post in the first place. What is the quotation and/or saying that you agree with, and one you don't agree with, and why?

For me, (I'll get the negative out of the way) the worst saying that I have ever heard because it is actually just a bunch of hooey in my opinion is (and I don't know who it's by):

'Direction is far more important then progress'.

My reasoning for saying this; without your progress, going that direction will not matter anyways because then you are not furthering your knowledge and progressing towards a better and clearer future. But the same goes the other way too....sort of. You can make your own direction but you need progress to do it.

The quote that I very much agree with (again, I don't know who said it):

'A tiger cares not of the opinion of the sheep.'

While being wise it still holds quite a bit of 'ouch' in it. It's sharp and to the point. It tells us not to care of what others have to say, even going as far to say that what they think should only thrust you up and hold your head high because you are not so low as them to spread rumours about others.

What say you Iwakians?

Parson · Dec 8, 2012

Hey now... not a boring discussion!

Strangely, I can't think of any that I disagree with -- probably because if I deem them rubbish, I push them out of my head. Space is valuable! With the ones I agree with, however, they usually apply to something. Like I have quite a few regarding mathematics and philosophy. Some breach the barriers though.

A silly one, that I happen to agree with is, "Four-thirds of people don't understand fractions." -waits-

"Every error is caused by emotions and education (implicit and explicit); intellect by itself (not disturbed by anything outside) could not err." -- Kurt Godel

Godel combined mathematics and philosophy, much like how I do. Another famous mathematics quote is by Frege: "Every good mathematician is at least half a philosopher, and every good philosopher is at least half a mathematician." This could not be more true because some of the most famous mathematics findings, theorems, etc were all started in a very philosophical manner.

Phoenix's Wrath · Dec 8, 2012

I disagree with the 'every philosopher is half a mathematician' simply because you could have great ideals but be terrible at math. I am alright with math, but not great but consider myself to be a armature philosopher. It all really depends on how you see the world, and how you react towards everything. As far as intellect goes, Albert Einstein once said 'Everybody is a genius. But you judge a fish on it's ability to climb a tree it'll live it's life believing that it is stupid.'

It all goes down to how you word things. Intelligence isn't based on how well you do math, science or anything like that. It;s how quickly you pick up on things, memory, and other things. But in true intellect it is how you treat others and how you react to them.

I know philosophy is tied in with math from logic.

Spammy · Dec 8, 2012

I don't know if it really count as sayings when I don't say it, but as I've spent time watching people interact over the internet I've really come to agree with Frank Herbet when it comes to one of the in-universe quotes he came up with to precede a chapter: "We tend to become like the worst in those we oppose." I'd like to say that ever since I first read it that thought has been in the back of my mind, tempering my actions.

Phoenix's Wrath · Dec 8, 2012

Spammy said:
I don't know if it really count as sayings when I don't say it, but as I've spent time watching people interact over the internet I've really come to agree with Frank Herbet when it comes to one of the in-universe quotes he came up with to precede a chapter: "We tend to become like the worst in those we oppose." I'd like to say that ever since I first read it that thought has been in the back of my mind, tempering my actions.

I agree with that to an extent. But for those who truly loathe incredibly bad people such as predators (most of you should know what I am talking about) or murderers, saying that they have traits of that of which they cannot stand is carrying it too far. I think what he means is those around us that have wronged us. Again, this is my analysis of it.

Fluffy · Dec 9, 2012

Here's a quote we can all agree on:

"Live every week like it's Shark Week."

Phoenix's Wrath · Dec 9, 2012

I'm actually afraid of sharks for the most part yet....they are amazing. I agree Fluffy.

Spammy · Dec 9, 2012

Phoenix's Wrath said:
I agree with that to an extent. But for those who truly loathe incredibly bad people such as predators (most of you should know what I am talking about) or murderers, saying that they have traits of that of which they cannot stand is carrying it too far. I think what he means is those around us that have wronged us. Again, this is my analysis of it.

To me it's more pointing out how two people who oppose each other have the same nasty characteristics and are blind to them, not actions taken. Ignorance with ignorance, violence with violence, intolerance with intolerance. If you're not aware of it you can be just as bad as the people you claim to be better than. That the two people screaming their heads off at each other over some issue are in fact Not So Different. And that's why I said that quote really took on a truth for me as I observed people on the Internet, there's a lot of Not So Different out there.

Phoenix's Wrath · Dec 9, 2012

Spammy said:
To me it's more pointing out how two people who oppose each other have the same nasty characteristics and are blind to them, not actions taken. Ignorance with ignorance, violence with violence, intolerance with intolerance. If you're not aware of it you can be just as bad as the people you claim to be better than. That the two people screaming their heads off at each other over some issue are in fact Not So Different. And that's why I said that quote really took on a truth for me as I observed people on the Internet, there's a lot of Not So Different out there.

Very true, but what I was saying is that while not liking what that person is does not necessarily mean that they are like that person they so dislike. They may have hidden reasons to dislike them, even if the person could not help themselves. Not everyone could be so forgiving towards pedophiles for instance, because they themselves may have been hurt by them, there spurs the hatred/dislike/distrust for them. And to say that they are like those that hurt them is slightly borderline cruel. True, some may have those traits. But the cases of the abused turning into an abuser are one out of ten, very rare.

And I'm not trying to call you cruel or anything, I don't mean it that way, I meant it more as wording things could be the matter of which argument is placed instead of where discussion should be ensuing.

People are individuals, it is impossible to really look into every single person without becoming paranoid. While I do not solely disagree with what you are saying, I am saying that not everybody despises someone else because they share the same trait. There may be a valid reason. But if you just wake up one day and decide that you hate a certain person or type of person then yes, that quote could be true.

Spammy · Dec 9, 2012

I'm not talking about actions, I'm talking about characteristics. And I'm also not saying that they made their choices about who they oppose because they shared the same characteristics, I'm saying that once they have made that decision they take on similar characteristics. That as you despise or oppose someone you take on characteristics, not actions. I'm not saying you're going to murder someone if you dislike murderers, but I'm saying that you might take on some similar characteristics if you're not careful. And I'm not saying it's a fast transformation either, it's something that grows on you the longer your feelings last. You start to become No So Different until you're the same kind of jerk you're so adamant that you're better than.

Phoenix's Wrath · Dec 9, 2012

Spammy said:
I'm not talking about actions, I'm talking about characteristics. And I'm also not saying that they made their choices about who they oppose because they shared the same characteristics, I'm saying that once they have made that decision they take on similar characteristics. That as you despise or oppose someone you take on characteristics, not actions. I'm not saying you're going to murder someone if you dislike murderers, but I'm saying that you might take on some similar characteristics if you're not careful. And I'm not saying it's a fast transformation either, it's something that grows on you the longer your feelings last. You start to become No So Different until you're the same kind of jerk you're so adamant that you're better than.

And I'm not saying that I fully disagree with you, I just disagree with some of it. I don't think someone will turn into a bad person or even develop the characteristics of that person in which they despise so much. It all depends on the person.

Villamvihar · Dec 12, 2012

The saying that I agree the most with is probably "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." It is a quote attributed to Albert Einstein, which, in my opinion, summarises the need for communication between humans and the fact that violence should not be the answer. In my opinion, it sums up humanity's history quite well, when one thinks about it: For most of history, mankind always resulted to violence to solve their problems instead of trying to find a diplomatic approach. But now that slowly, the world is on the road to globalisation, not to mention that instant communications have been made possible through the internet along with other devices, the possibility for peace is there.

Now if only people would learn how to listen to each other instead of just blowing them up...

As for a quote that I disagree with, I am unable to find one. I tend to only remember quotes that touch me in some way or quotes that I agree with on some level, so I am going to skip on answering that question.

Phoenix's Wrath · Dec 12, 2012

I love all quotes by Albert Einstein. My favourite quote by him by far is;

'Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it'll live it's life believing that it is stupid.'

He was an amazing person and rests today as my hero.

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