Anita Sarkeesian

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You can say the exact same thing about Christianity, and about Gamers, and about pretty much anything under the sun. D: The point I am trying to get at, is that people should educate themselves before they start making generalized assumptions and accusations towards a grouping of people just by the bad press that's going on.
Yes, but calling a gamer a gamer is like calling a walker a walker XD There is no rules to gaming other then gaming and enjoying it. Anita says she doesn't enjoy gaming, and there was that rumor that she only "Plays" them to find a lie within.

Regardless, everyone know full well what a true feminist is supposed to be. Everybody knows that first wave, and second wave feminism were good. You know what is bad though? The third wave feminist, who's taking it too far. What people say about feminist being the way it is right now isn't assumptions and accusations, it is what they do, and it is also what they are succeeding to do.

You are making the assumption she is the leader of the movement, and not just some whackadoodle lady that got a lot of attention. Whackadoodles are always getting face time and making things look bad for their cause. The Donald Trump for presidency fiasco is a good example. This still does not mean you base your entire opinion on those extremists.
Even if she's not THE leader, she is still a leader. She has a massive following. Her rank in it is so high that she recently went to the UN to talk about her views and stuff, views that are effecting people, and (Perhaps indirectly) caused innocent people to be bullied to suicide over something that they didn't do, but some random girl lied about. You wanna talk about educating ones self, look into the darker side of feminism, and take a looksy at the negatives, and how it has ruined innocent people. And they do it under the feminism name.

What do you think is more effective, telling me to educate myself about something I already know about? Or gathering real feminist to take your name back? I assure you that if you do the second, people who aren't even feminist will join you, even anti-feminist will join you in hopes of taking down the bad side. Then once they're taken down, feminist can go back to doing what they wanna do, bring equality.



she would have remained a nobody if gamers didn't get all hot and bothered and go after her the way they did
I think i'll have to disagree with that. She was building up quite the following long before people went after her. People went after her BECAUSE she was gaining traction and followers, and she was becoming a bigger threat. In other words, by the time people tried to take action, it was already too late and she had enough followers to keep going despite.

I'm pretty sure she got her footage from various LP's on YouTube.
Most of it I hear. Wanna know what she doesn't get from youtube and she does herself though? doing something super sexist that nobody on youtube is doing, so she has to do herself to prove a point. she's also a hypocrite, she went after Laura croft for having big breast, and in the reboot when they were toned down, she was like "They're taking away a womans feminine side and making them more masculine"


As for being a minority... If they're such little of them, then why is it so hard to take care of them and take back the name? I've seen far more extremist than I have real feminist throughout my life. If they are a minority, then they should be able to be easily stopped and shut down. When it comes to gaming, if enough real feminist be like "Heeeyyyyy, I'm a woman, and a real feminist, and I say keep doing what you're doing and don't change a thing :D :D :D" Then that will EASILY outnumber the extremist, make headlines, faith in feminism will be restored, and the world will probably become a better place :D

(Idealistic, I know. But I think it's better than how things are going now)
 
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Feminists with rainbow hair are like rabid dogs who make the rest of the pack look sick.
 
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You must not be on YouTube that much then because I've seen many women call out Anita and say how dumb she's being. And guess what? Some of them were FEMINISTS. *gasps* How shocking is that?!!
Well yeah, seeing women call out Anita wasn't my point. I very well expect women to call out Anita, because women in general tend to be opposed to feminism. (Potty-mouthed Princesses pretty much expedited that matter.)

Guess feminists aren't loud enough then, huh?
 
*Is shoved back in*

I DON'T WANT TO BE IN HERE. IT'S STUPID AND POINTLESS AND EVERYONE'S DUMB.

*Scratches at the door*
 
Yeeeaaaah, no. You need to acquire more information than judging something by face value or by the most obvious and easy to see example. O_O Otherwise, you have not learned enough to make an educated opinion, and can't really have an informed conversation.
Saying simply that I "dont know what I am talking about" without actually making an argument doesn't actually work.

And thinking "you aren't smart enough, therefor your arguments mean nothing" is an Ad Hom fallacy... again.
 
*Is shoved back in*

I DON'T WANT TO BE IN HERE. IT'S STUPID AND POINTLESS AND EVERYONE'S DUMB.

*Scratches at the door*
But Moon Men.
 
Yes, but calling a gamer a gamer is like calling a walker a walker XD There is no rules to gaming other then gaming and enjoying it. Anita says she doesn't enjoy gaming, and there was that rumor that she only "Plays" them to find a lie within.

Regardless, everyone know full well what a true feminist is supposed to be. Everybody knows that first wave, and second wave feminism were good. You know what is bad though? The third wave feminist, who's taking it too far. What people say about feminist being the way it is right now isn't assumptions and accusations, it is what they do, and it is also what they are succeeding to do.


Even if she's not THE leader, she is still a leader. She has a massive following. Her rank in it is so high that she recently went to the UN to talk about her views and stuff, views that are effecting people, and (Perhaps indirectly) caused innocent people to be bullied to suicide over something that they didn't do, but some random girl lied about. You wanna talk about educating ones self, look into the darker side of feminism, and take a looksy at the negatives, and how it has ruined innocent people. And they do it under the feminism name.

What do you think is more effective, telling me to educate myself about something I already know about? Or gathering real feminist to take your name back? I assure you that if you do the second, people who aren't even feminist will join you, even anti-feminist will join you in hopes of taking down the bad side. Then once they're taken down, feminist can go back to doing what they wanna do, bring equality.




I think i'll have to disagree with that. She was building up quite the following long before people went after her. People went after her BECAUSE she was gaining traction and followers, and she was becoming a bigger threat. In other words, by the time people tried to take action, it was already too late and she had enough followers to keep going despite.


Most of it I hear. Wanna know what she doesn't get from youtube and she does herself though? doing something super sexist that nobody on youtube is doing, so she has to do herself to prove a point. she's also a hypocrite, she went after Laura croft for having big breast, and in the reboot when they were toned down, she was like "They're taking away a womans feminine side and making them more masculine"


As for being a minority... If they're such little of them, then why is it so hard to take care of them and take back the name? I've seen far more extremist than I have real feminist throughout my life. If they are a minority, then they should be able to be easily stopped and shut down. When it comes to gaming, if enough real feminist be like "Heeeyyyyy, I'm a woman, and a real feminist, and I say keep doing what you're doing and don't change a thing :D :D :D" Then that will EASILY outnumber the extremist, make headlines, faith in feminism will be restored, and the world will probably become a better place :D

(Idealistic, I know. But I think it's better than how things are going now)

Yes, but calling a gamer a gamer is like calling a walker a walker XD There is no rules to gaming other then gaming and enjoying it. Anita says she doesn't enjoy gaming, and there was that rumor that she only "Plays" them to find a lie within.

Regardless, everyone know full well what a true feminist is supposed to be. Everybody knows that first wave, and second wave feminism were good. You know what is bad though? The third wave feminist, who's taking it too far. What people say about feminist being the way it is right now isn't assumptions and accusations, it is what they do, and it is also what they are succeeding to do.


Even if she's not THE leader, she is still a leader. She has a massive following. Her rank in it is so high that she recently went to the UN to talk about her views and stuff, views that are effecting people, and (Perhaps indirectly) caused innocent people to be bullied to suicide over something that they didn't do, but some random girl lied about. You wanna talk about educating ones self, look into the darker side of feminism, and take a looksy at the negatives, and how it has ruined innocent people. And they do it under the feminism name.

What do you think is more effective, telling me to educate myself about something I already know about? Or gathering real feminist to take your name back? I assure you that if you do the second, people who aren't even feminist will join you, even anti-feminist will join you in hopes of taking down the bad side. Then once they're taken down, feminist can go back to doing what they wanna do, bring equality.




I think i'll have to disagree with that. She was building up quite the following long before people went after her. People went after her BECAUSE she was gaining traction and followers, and she was becoming a bigger threat. In other words, by the time people tried to take action, it was already too late and she had enough followers to keep going despite.


Most of it I hear. Wanna know what she doesn't get from youtube and she does herself though? doing something super sexist that nobody on youtube is doing, so she has to do herself to prove a point. she's also a hypocrite, she went after Laura croft for having big breast, and in the reboot when they were toned down, she was like "They're taking away a womans feminine side and making them more masculine"


As for being a minority... If they're such little of them, then why is it so hard to take care of them and take back the name? I've seen far more extremist than I have real feminist throughout my life. If they are a minority, then they should be able to be easily stopped and shut down. When it comes to gaming, if enough real feminist be like "Heeeyyyyy, I'm a woman, and a real feminist, and I say keep doing what you're doing and don't change a thing :D :D :D" Then that will EASILY outnumber the extremist, make headlines, faith in feminism will be restored, and the world will probably become a better place :D

(Idealistic, I know. But I think it's better than how things are going now)



Because most of the real feminists are calling themselves humanists now and distancing themselves from the movement so they won't be lumped in with the radicals
 
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I just know when to drop something so I don't go around in circles. O__O Now I will just enjoy watching Grumpy slowly die inside.
 
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*Is shoved back in*

I DON'T WANT TO BE IN HERE. IT'S STUPID AND POINTLESS AND EVERYONE'S DUMB.

*Scratches at the door*
*Grabs from behind* GET YO AISS BACK IN HERE!!!! >:D O.O You're foaming GREEN from the mouth? o.o Yeh, you should probably go and become sane again ^^;

I've let that one pass a bit too much ^^ Wanna know what I hate and don't play? Fallacy games.
It doesn't matter if what they say is a Fallacy, tell them why their point is wrong. Just saying "Fallacy" doesn't teach anything. And calling out fallacies are funny from someone who's using True scottsman :P (Not that I think you're entirely wrong, if someones a true scotsman, then so be it. Their point still stands weather we like it or not, and will continue to stand till it's proven wrong, not proven a fallacy.


@SacredWarrior
[BCOLOR=#000080]Because most of the real feminists are calling themselves humanists now and distancing themselves from the movement so they won't be lumped in with the radicals[/BCOLOR]
Well yes, that's exactly what I said was happening a few post ago XD
 
CoD is one of those titles that pretty much defines gaming. Its silly not to let people have what they like.
Oh please. While I can agree that banning CoD might be bad, but Chrononaut's opinion doesn't translate to the desires of all feminists or even Anita Sarkeesian.

It still wouldn't make you not a gamer if you don't like CoD and want it to go away.
Yup. I used what she said as an example to address what seems to be the feminist mindset.\
That's what we call a Strawman, discrediting one exaggerated point and claiming "victory" over the whole movement.
My argument is that the charges against gaming by feminist is a false premise.

According to Geek Feminism Wiki:

[spoili]"Women are believed to be underrepresented by numbers in many types of geeky entertainment, including roleplaying and computer gaming. This page covers primarily computer gaming communities online."

-http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Gaming[/spoili]

Which also seems to be a shared argument on most of the sites that google brought up when searching "Feminism in Gaming" and that of Anita Sarkeesian as well.

EDIT:

milo yiannopoulos feminism - YouTube

sargon of akkad feminism - YouTube
How does this prove they have it out for all games and want them to change to fit their narrative? It sounds more like they would just like a little more representation in video games. What's wrong with that?
 
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This thread right now:

tumblr_inline_mn2tpzptGg1qz4rgp.gif


And with that, I will leave.
 
It still wouldn't make you not a gamer if you don't like CoD and want it to go away.
Opinion.

And I know what you are going to say. "What you said was an opinion too!"

Yeah I know. Doesn't mean I can't say it.

What constitutes being a gamer is completely subjective. And I will keep my opinion and argue it 10 ways to Sunday.

That's what we call a Strawman, discrediting one exaggerated point and claiming "victory" over the whole movement.
Actually, a strawman is making the argument for the other side, and the destroying that created argument.

What I did was show her/him the mindset of the movement, by making an accurate comparison.

How does this prove they have it out for all games and want them to change to fit their narrative? It sounds more like they would just like a little more representation in video games. What's wrong with that?
Where did I say their was something wrong with having an opinion?

All I did was say it was a false premise.
 
Not that I agree with Anita in any fashion, but she isn't a spokesperson for every feminist. Not that I agree with much of what they have to say.
You just made a great point. See you (possibly a feminist) don't personally enjoy Call of Duty games and "would rather have them go away".
All Chrononaut is saying there is he hates some games and wishes they would go away. He's not advocating for slaughtering the developers in the name of Ze Fuhrer, he just hates their games. Granted, his Nazi poster response nonsense was fucking stupid, and I'm not going to defend that. In fact, he and I often disagree about this shit on Steam and Skype. He left my Skype group because he loathed the general opinions in there.

He isn't wishing death to the Skype group, or death to anything that's different. He has a particular set of narratives he enjoys, so he pursues those and supports them. He has a particular set of narratives he doesn't care about, so he ignores them. He has a particular set of narratives he loathes, so he wishes they would stop being promulgated over narratives he does actually enjoy.
The very fact that you don't like something and want to see it go, even though millions other people want it, is what makes you not a gamer.
Which makes this statement fucking absurd. So because millions of people love Call of Duty, and I loath it and wish it would fuck off instead of eating the Steam front store page for an entire month and breed another generation of Doritos-consuming mountain dew-pissing twelve year olds, means I'm not a real gamer? Since when? I've played video games since I was knee high to a gopher. I fucking loved Super Mario on the SNES as a kid, though I never beat it because I enjoyed PC games more. I loved X-COM Apocalypse (which makes me a heathen because apparently the original with the retarded looking geoscape playdoh view thing and trolololo awful balance is the master race version). I loved MechWarrior 2, and MechWarrior 3, and Master of Orion 2. I loved Birth of the Federation, even if it was a shallow and buggier version of Master of Orion 2. I loved Microprose, and my naive, childish eyes got to watch them get fucking molested by Activision, then watch their hollowed out husk of a brand get sold off to Hasbro to be milked like a cow until Hasbro shut down their games division.

As a kid, I never got why they failed. I loved those games, so why didn't they succeed? When the new X-COM came out, I saw it as a watered down, buggier version of the original that stripped most of the strategic elements in favour of turning most of the game into a giant slot machine of endless RNG. Then I played it, and you know what? It really is that. Does that make it shit? Well, I thought about it. It's certainly kind of shitty to me. I found some enjoyment out of it, but never as much as I found in Apocalypse. Then I talked to other people who played it and enjoyed it profusely. People like Kadaeux, a long time friend of mine. He loved it. Does that suddenly make Kadaeux a dumber person? Does that somehow exclude him from being a "true gamer" because he likes the more shallow version of what the fan base considers the "master race" original title with playdoh graphics, and a UI designed by fucking cavemen?

Look. I could easily go on a fuckin' tirade about all the stupid nonsense that Anita Sarkeesian spouts out of her fuckin' mouth. She's Jack Thompson with Tits™ right down to stating that video games cause violent behaviour. She repeatedly concocts lies and other nonsense in her videos for the sole purpose of attempting to slant people to her perspective. And you know what?

I don't care. I can't even begin to muster a single fuck to give. When news media was devoting several minute long pieces to the shock and terribleness of blue alien booty and skewering the truth about it, I gave lots of fucks. I was enraged. I was also a teenager who thought that Linkin Park was the greatest musical talent of all time, so I'd say my tastes back then were hilariously fucking shit. When Jack Thompson was going on the news, time and time again, talking about the evils of violent pixels, I totally got mad about that too. Do you know what happened?

Rockstar continued to release extremely violent Grand Theft Auto titles. The first person shooter industry boomed. Jack Thompson was eventually disbarred from being a lawyer for repeatedly abusing attempts to silence free expression through law. Everybody moved on with their lives and played motherfucking video games.

What's the greatest achievement this new wave of pseudo-feminist new agey soccer moms has done to stop violent & sexist video games? Get GTA V removed from Targets in Australia? Oh no. How terrible. How else will I acquire my grandma roadkill simulator. It's almost as if there are entire fucking store chains dedicated to selling games who will sell this to me, but, losing it from Target will somehow prevent me from buying it. You know what? Fuck Target. If they don't want my money, I'll just go buy it from someone else who wants my money. Same thing about various corporations in the US who hate the LGBT movement. I guess they don't want my money either, fuck em', I'll go buy things from companies that are either indifferent or supportive of the LGBT movement. Gee, that wasn't hard.

Anita Sarkeesian is free to speak about her stupidity and I'm free not to get a shit about it and keep buying my horribly sexist, violent games. Other women are free to talk about what they'd like to see change in video games. Some video games will change to try and reach out to them as an audience, and other video games will not. There will always be studios like Rockstar who don't give a rip roaring fuck and will just spit out highly offensive titles without a care in the world, and overly heart throbbing hipster indie twats who will make video games they think are "artistic" and "profound." Some of them will be, some of them won't be, and it's entirely to your personal tastes. I found Undertale to be boring as shit but Ori and the Blind Forest is fucking amazing. Disliking one and liking the other doesn't make me any less a "gamer." When the fuck did we concoct some sort of "gamer inquisition?" This is dumb.

If you really want Anita Sarkeesian to go away, stop giving a fuck. Encourage other people to stop giving a fuck. If you think this feminist slant crap at the UN is something new, it's not. It's old. At least a decade or so old. They have entire sections dedicated solely to building up women's rights, and you know what? I don't care. I don't have to give them my money, or my time. I can just give my money to organizations I like. That's why we have thousands of games. We have thousands of different narrative experiences. Some of them, Anita will hate. Some of them, Anita will love. Do you know how much I care about her opinion? I don't, so I don't fucking watch her videos.

Seriously, stop getting so worked up about Jack Thompson with Tits. Sit down and ask yourself how much effective change she and her cadre of artards have actually managed to create. It rhymes with "basically nothing." They've managed to get nothing of any importance banned. They've managed to change no laws regarding the development of games. If a developer here or there capitulated and added things she wanted, stop giving a shit about it then. Don't do this creepy ass gamer inquisition/borg collective crap: SJW games can exist and you don't have to give a fuck about them. Games with ideological slants have existed since the dawn of gaming. This fucking thing exists. So does this. Seriously, we don't have any standards whatsoever.

It doesn't matter what other people do and enjoy. If you don't care about someone's opinion, stop fucking bothering with it. There are people here on Iwaku that I don't get along with whatsoever: I don't talk to them, and I don't role play with them. Do you know how much I have to give a shit about them now? Not at all.

Oh, and PS: Hashtag movements are fucking dumb and ineffective and never actually do shit in the long term. #Kony2012. Fuck. Why does nobody learn? These people just want to verify themselves. Look at Atheism+. Atheists rejected it and moved on with their lives. The folks within Atheism+, failing to get any attention from outside, started to devour each other in some of the most brutal, savage infighting you can possibly look up. They started accusing each other of being sexual molesters n' shit. You win by not giving a shit. That's how you win. :ferret:

Also, please, no more of this "true gamer" crap. That's retarded.

EDIT

Also, yes, there are good feminists and bad feminists. Look at the Middle East. There was a girl there shot in the head for the crime of just wanting to get educated and read books. Her name is Malala. Look her up. Stop letting attention whores fuck up entire movements. If you don't want GamerGate to be judged by the deranged, sexist assholes within it, don't judge all of feminism by the actions of prissy idiots who have nothing better to do than wallow in self-pity and accuse the world of hating them.
 
Which makes this statement fucking absurd. So because millions of people love Call of Duty, and I loath it and wish it would fuck off instead of eating the Steam front store page for an entire month and breed another generation of Doritos-consuming mountain dew-pissing twelve year olds, means I'm not a real gamer? Since when?
As I explained in my post previous to this one, I fully knowledge that "what a real gamer is", happens to be completely subjective.

EDIT: That doesn't mean that I cant argue that said subjective opinion either.

I will stick to my point that you can't really be a feminist and a gamer at the same time. You cannot like a fandom "gaming" that encompasses the freedom of narration and story-telling unrestricted and the way that they see fit, and at the same time breath an ideology that has gone as far as to advocate legislation that would make developers create characters that feminists agree with.
 
It doesn't matter if what they say is a Fallacy, tell them why their point is wrong.
Although Ad Hominem is very self explanatory, I would have. The problem is, the Ad Hom fallacy was their point.
 
I will stick to my point that you can't really be a feminist and a gamer at the same time. You cannot like a fandom "gaming" that encompasses the freedom of narration and story-telling unrestricted and the way that they see fit, and at the same time breath an ideology that has gone as far as to advocate legislation that would make developers create characters that feminists agree with.
Gamers play video games. Feminists want to see the state of women improve, one way or another.

You can be a person who plays video games and wants to see the state of women improve.

Christ these aren't opposite dichotomies like atheism and christianity. You can be both of these things at the same time. Stop pushing this gamer inquisition "true gamer" crap, when you acknowledge yourself, it's entirely subjective. You're smarter than this, I know you are. :ferret:
 
Gamers play video games. Feminists want to see the state of women improve, one way or another.
Thats isn't the argument! Feminists that claim to be gamers (in the case of Anita Sarkeesian and people like minded) actually want to legislate law that would force developers to create cookie cutter characters and stories that fit their own ideology.
 
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