Am I a bigot or is my uncle just being an ass?

Discussion in 'THREAD ARCHIVES' started by Lunatic AI, Jun 16, 2011.

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  1. I'd put this in general rants but I almost kinda want some feedback. I think. I don't know. I'm just mad at my uncle right now. He's a very in-your-face type of person- he gets wind of ANYTHING that's a sensitive issue with you and goes for it like a bulldog. He does things like this to my mom all the time and I refuse to let him bully me. I don't think he has the right to. So, forgive me but i just need to let off some steam.

    I disagree with homosexuality. THERE. I said it in black and white for all the internet to see. I don't think it's healthy, physically, emotionally, spiritually whatever- oh, and surprise surprise, it has nothing to do with being christian- not for me. I have spent twenty years trying to convince myself it's ok through various philosophies and points of view but lately I'm embracing the philosophy that I shouldn't be a liar or a hypocrite and WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME FOR MY OPINION I'M NOT GOING TO JUST TELL THEM THE SHIT THEY WANT TO HEAR.

    If I EVER say ANYTHING to anyone along the lines of 'no i don't like homosexuality', it isn't because I think it's 'wrong' or 'gross' or makes them a 'bad person', its because I give a fuck and I don't like to see anyone I LOVE doing something I view as harmful to themselves. And because you asked. me. directly.

    WE'RE ALL GROWNUPS. We all have to make our own decisions. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think, all I'm asking is that they afford the same courtesy to me. I don't have to agree with or support someone else's smoking habit or bungee jumping, I don't think that makes me a snob or a coward, how is someone else's sex life any different? No one's perfect and I'm not claiming to be the exception.

    Sorry. Just had to get this off my chest before I haul off and deck the next person to start this argument with me-because it isn't a discussion I have EVER started (...before this, I suppose.) It isn't that I don't empathize; two of the four great loves of my life were women, but I'm not going to support and/or encourage someone to do something I don't agree with.

    Does that make me a bad person? Is it acceptable to stick up for your own opinions when people go after you? Have I ever come across to any of you as closed minded or a bigot?

    I'm trusting y'all not to fillet me alive here. But I think that proves my point?
     
  2. I won't say that I can wholly relate to your story, but on occassion, I have held opinions that were very different from the people that surrounded me, and politically incorrect as well.

    If it's what you believe in, TRULY believe in, you should stick with your opinion. BUT, if you truly believe in it, you also need to be ready to defend your opinion and back it up with reasons WHY you believe in it. If it's a 'politically incorrect' or otherwise 'insensitive' opinion (notice the quotation marks, I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing in this post) there will be some people who'll get offended or act offended. You can't really blame these people for sticking up for what THEY believe in either. If they believe you to be a bad person because of so and so, they too have a right to believe that. If you still feel your opinion is the right one regardless, then you can either try to convince them of it's validity, or attempt to ignore them.

    In short, almost every controversial opinion will get you heckled by a certain group of people. Does this automatically make you a bad person? That's for everyone to decide on their own. If YOU don't think it makes you a bad person, and you REALLY have peace with your opinion, then it shouldn't matter to you what other people think. Because your beliefs aren't anyones business, unless they cause harm to other people.
     
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  3. Somebody being a bigot and other people being asses to them are not mutually exclusive concepts.

    Since I'm a newbie here, I don't know you. However, judging by what you are saying right now, yeah, I'd say that you're a bigot. Your uncle sounds like a butthead too, but that does not excuse your behavior.

    Please, I beg of you, before you get somebody seriously hurt with your words, PLEASE realize that intent - intent to change your views and intent to be honest alike - is not some magical, fix all button. Because even if you're just "being honest," words and ideas still hurt. They are still just as bad as a knife coming an inch closer to a wrist. They are still just as bad as a thrown fist. Because they add to the motivation for these things in a feedback loop of hate. Hate for others and hate for the self. Even if you're not the one throwing the punch, your words will add to another person's motivation to do so.

    People saying things like you are now? That being gay or trans or any other kind of queer is unhealthy? THAT is what is unhealthy for LGBTQI folk. Having to hear people say that our "choice" of "lifestyle" (it is neither, by the way) is harmful, pretty much all the time? That the way you were born is somehow glitched or wrong? That is harmful. Comparing LGBTQI status to smoking is what is wrong. Not letting go of your harmful, bigoted, heteronormative views is what is wrong.

    Here's the kicker, though: contrary to popular belief, being wrong does not make you a bad person. I will love and tolerate you as a fellow human being, no matter how backwards I feel your beliefs may be. But I will also not stand by quietly while you perpetuate unhealthy ideas that are harmful to my life and well being.
     
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  4. Thanks for the input :)

    Thanks guys. It was interesting to get a comment from both someone who does know me and someone who doesn't. I'm not particularly upset about this anymore, it was more just a shock to call to say hi to my mother and have my uncle lay into me like that. And I'm all for debate and exchanging ideas, but he's the sort of person who doesn't let you get a word in edge wise, and no one likes to be ranted at.

    I suppose I should clarify the situation, it actually a little funny in retrospect and with a nap; apparently my mom let it slip that I 'agreed with her' or something about my uncle's sudden switching of teams- what ACTUALLY happened was when his wife ran off with her crack dealer (no, I'm not exaggerating) he went into this phase where he started bringing random men home from bars. This was not my uncle falling in love or even going on the rebound- I can say this because I know my uncle- this was him being petty.

    What I commented on was NOT his sexuality.

    (Do you want to know the two STRONGEST worded comments I have ever made to someone concerning the subject? I told a friend of mine 'nah, not really into yaoi.' and told my little cousin, when some kids at school were teasing him about his long hair and he asked me if he was gay 'having long hair doesn't make you gay anymore than a girl having short hair does. no one decides who and what you like but you. either way, don't you let anyone bully you.')

    If I 'attacked' or 'hated' on my uncle for anything it was his parenting. What I said was "Shouldn't he be spending more time with his kids instead of bar-hopping?" I understand he was hurting, himself, but he had a 5 year old and a 9 year old who were struggling with a bad case of broken home syndrome and while he's a good provider I was worried he wasn't as emotionally 'there for them' as he needed to be.

    Also, this was like, five years ago, so I was a bit wtf.

    Either way. I just wanted to say thanks for both your opinions.

    You don't know me, JuneJazz, but I don't mind your calling my a bigot anyway- I did ask after all, and it doesn't really upset me like I worried for a moment it would. I disagree, after some thought, though. I don't think you're a bigot for taking a stand that everyone should be as accepting as you, after all. I think 'bigotry' in the more correct sense of the word has more to do with how you treat people who pursue a lifestyle you don't agree with than simply mentioning when directly asked that no, you don't agree. My bad use of words there, but I see your point.

    While I really loved how you put this "Here's the kicker, though: contrary to popular belief, being wrong does not make you a bad person. I will love and tolerate you as a fellow human being, no matter how backwards I feel your beliefs may be. But I will also not stand by quietly while you perpetuate unhealthy ideas that are harmful to my life and well being." (I absolutely could not have said it better myself from my side of the issue.)

    I am concerned about another part of your post. I just wanted to say, if anyone's attitude or remarks towards you for whatever-anything- makes you want to...hmm... damage yourself in any way you need to seek professional help. I don't hate anyone just because I don't agree with their life choices (again with failing to remember the anagram. I suck with anagrams hang on... LGBTQI yay for copy/paste!) but I know there are a lot of very hateful people in the world- BUT, back to what Myrn said, you gotta stick up for what you truly believe in and I add in that if you don't have the backbone to stand up for what you're invested in then, right or wrong, whatever anyone's perspective, you shouldn't be doing it.

    And I disagree that disagreeing (sorry. 'disagree' is really the best word to describe my opinion I know it's annoying me too how often I'm using it) with the LGBTOI choice is the same as encouraging someone else to go find someone who's gay and beat them up for it. That's just ridiculous. That's like me telling you your saying my opinion is backwards is as bad as telling the community to cut my tongue out. *glares grammar into submission* No one should be beating anyone up- that's a whole different kettle of fish.


    Anyway, this is probably all anyone will ever hear form me on the subject of homosexuality- sex generally isn't really one of my preferred conversational topics- so I apologize if I ruffled anyone's feathers and thank you again your care and comments.

    But seriously Jazzy, if you or anyone you know is deliberately hurting themselves for any reason you need to get them to a doctor. Self destruction is it's own illness and while yes, outside factors like stress or discrimination can contribute to the cycle, no one but you is putting the edge to your own skin. I'm an ex-burner, I've been there, and the healing has to start with the self-harmer him/herself.
     
  5. Re: Thanks for the input :)

    I understand that you have never intentionally said anything to hurt an LGBTQI person and I respect you for that. However, your definition of bigotry is wrong. Bigotry is prejudiced, harmful attitudes and actions held by the kyriarchy (anybody who has white, or straight, or abled, or male, or etc. privilege) against an oppressed minority. Not just how they treat them, but how they view them. You view our LGBTQI status as harmful. You might not mean harm, but you are still a bigot.

    #The gay lifestyle.
    Since you alluded to it. There is no gay lifestyle. At all. There never has been. There never will be. There is gay culture, gay humor, gay media, all of which is different in different places in the world. The human lifestyle of a gay person in San Fransisco is going to be different from the human lifestyle of gay person in New York. The gay lifestyle that others seem to be inexplicably able to see is just not there. It's the same for black people, disabled people, women, etc. The differences in how they live are in the things they do to get by in a world that hates and fears them, and that's different for everybody.

    To say that your uncle suddenly "switched teams" is also not correct. He was always gay, he was born that way and can't change it. Just like he can't change the color of his skin. His minority status was invisible though, and he was closeted. He just took a while to come out.

    He should not have ranted at you, and your mother shouldn't have been openly bigoted toward him. However, that does not change the fact that you hold bigoted views yourself.

    #Suicide.
    Don't call me Jazzy. Just don't.
    Also, I just brought up suicide as an example of the harm that ideas can cause. I have never had serious, suicidal thoughts before, but I have known people who have. It was not a reference to my situation, or the situation of anybody around me in the present. It was a reference to the suicide epidemic that the LGBTQI community has been faced with these past few years.
     
  6. While you are a bigot, in my opinion, what would make you a bad person is if you decided to use your opinions as a reason to do something to harm someone in the LGBTQI community. Your opinions are just that: Opinions. If those opinions drive you to commit some sort of harm upon a member of the community, then and only then can I call you a bad person.

    I believe you are misguided, but not bad.
     
  7. Wow, I really wish this wasn't the first thread I read on here. Yes, you are a bigot - I do not think you are a bigot, I do not believe you are a bigot, I know you are a bigot. You said that people like me are "not healthy" and that we are doing something that is "harfmul to themselves." I find this personally insulting, but not only that, I find it infuriating. I wish we lived in a world where people like you didn't exist, where people weren't allowed to hold such hateful, prejudiced, and also inaccurate views. You are a despicable person, and you should thank God every day that I don't know who you are or I would give you a piece of my mind in real life, and not just on the internet. Shame on you for thinking such mean-spirited and self-righteous things, and shame on you for being so close-minded and backwards.

    And how hypocritical! You say such horrid things about LGBT people, and then you turn around and ask us not to "fillet you." Well, I'm not going to pretend to get along with you, and I sure as hell am not going to pretend to respect you, for you do not respect me or believe that people like me are equal to you. You are a bad person, and I feel 100% comfortable telling you as much.

    Bigot. Plain and simple. Period, end of sentence. Honestly most of the RPG sites I go on would not even allow this kind of behavior to fly, usually hate speech is against the rules. I'm beginning to question whether I belong on a site like this, or whether I'm just going to come face to face with homophobia whenever I'm on here.
     
  8. Seeing as this is a hot button issue, and LunaAI is currently not on the site for IRL reasons I am locking this thread. Thank you everyone for your thoughts and opinions.
     
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